7 ms·

No discussion about this? when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things instead of making things. With a computer you can make thin

No discussion about this? when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things instead of making things. With a computer you can make things. You can code, you can make things and create things that have never before existed and do things that have never been done before. I think closed devices are really a step backwards. I learnt programming (and a whole lot more, like mathematics and logic), when I picked up a computer as a kid and discovered Python and started hacking around. I could look around for tutorials, download code or try out code from books and nobody stopped me. On a somewhat similar vein, I am also sad that desktops are slowly going away. I learnt so much more about computers (and how it is not magic) by building my own. I think something needs to be said about systems that allow you to explore and hack around for the fun of it.

joelhooks 14y ago
I picked up a deep love for using computers via a terminal with a 300 baud modem. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment, just saying there are a lot of paths.
mikecane 14y ago
Do not get me started or I will start madly screaming "Where is HyperCard?" futile sigh
- ktizo 14y ago
  Don't, or you'll set the rest of them off and then the doctors will come and sedate everybody again.
jiggy2011 14y ago
There will always be systems that can be explored & hacked as long as there is a community interested in doing so. Desktops are not going to "go away" , things will simply evolve. We have the technology to create many types of computers now, not just a box with a keyboard & monitor.
rosstafarian 14y ago
Is that really true? They have python "apps" for the ipad, but that's not what i mean. I like tinkering, always have my parents tell stories about how when i was a child I'd take things apart instead of playing with toys. IMO that type of curiosity is what makes a "hacker". Regarding apple products part of the fun is jailbreaking the device and figuring out how it works, trying to break the security etc. this will teach you A LOT. Yes you can tinker with android devices but with something closed like the ipad I get a drive to figure out how it works and break it. Apple might not like it much when their devices are jailbroken/the cydia store but you don't see them suing people like geohot as sony does.
- rblackwater 14y ago
  I'm sure they'd love to, but it's been ruled that jailbreaking is legal (to run your own or free software).
  - fpgeek 14y ago
    In the US, at least, the legality of jailbreaking currently rests on a temporary DMCA exception that needs to be renewed every three years. Prospects for the renewal look good at the moment: http://www.teleread.com/copy-right/jailbreaking-dmca-exemption-likely-to-be-renewed/ http://www.teleread.com/copy-right/jailbreaking-dmca-exempti... But that is no reason to be complacent about the issue (or to think that this legality is written in anything but sand).
- tuneczar 14y ago
  "...but you don't see them suing people like geohot as sony does." Yes, yes you do. The ridiculous lawsuit that Apple is currently waging against Samsung is a prominent example. Frivolous waste of time. "Let's patent a rectangle. Wait, a black rectangle with rounded edges!" Good thing no one told any TV manufacturers about the no-rectangle patent! Silly. Don't get me wrong, though. I work on Macs every day; love 'em. But I think the platform wars should be over by now; being able to use *any device or OS or application should be the focus, shouldn't it? (For my part, I'm enjoying the flexibility to create, code, whatever on open and expansive Android devices in addition to my Mac these days. And I'm grateful that OSX is now based on a BSD variant.)
statictype 14y ago
when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things instead of making things. With a computer you can make things. Absolutely true. A lot of people like to mock the position that the iPad is a 'device for consumption' whenever a new story comes out about someone creating a song or painting on his iPad. Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC. I love my iPad. It's a great consumption device. But its terrible for tinkering and creativity (and this limitation is by design). Let me know when I can design flyers and brochures from it. Or write a program on it to do something useful that can be shared with others.
- drumdance 14y ago
  I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard good things about Garage Band on the iPad, and also for editing simple videos.
- ryannielsen 14y ago
  Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC. That's a bit like saying, "you don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his piano or violin", back in the 50s or 60s. There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies. Rather than lament the current state of new mobile platforms, why not celebrate these amazing new platforms? They're increasingly becoming creating rather than consuming platforms and, even if we will never easily create apps directly on them (which I don't believe is true), they're wonderful new distribution platforms. Just because they're not like the Apple ][s or C64s of yore doesn't mean it's the end of the hacking world. A new generation is growing up programming apps (yes, on their desktop computers right now) for this new world and can easily share their creations with millions. From where I'm sitting, this looks like a pretty interesting step forward. (And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store.)
  - statictype 14y ago
    There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies. Yes, and we're at that state right now with tablets. Sure, we'll get there eventually but it won't happen by fooling ourselves into contentment by saying they are already great for producing creative work. why not celebrate these amazing new platforms I did say that I love my iPad. I've reached the point where I don't mind paying more for e-books that I can read on it than the dead-tree version that I have to lug around with me. I also use it extensively for mail, photos and browsing. It may eventually become a tinkerer's device. It's not there yet though. And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store They let me use my own fonts (possibly in other languages)? Or let me cut a photo and place it on a page? The latter may not exist because no one has done it yet (ie, not a technical limitation). I'm pretty sure the former is a limitation of the platform rules that have been set. Anyway, I don't really disagree with much of what you say. We will eventually reach a point where creating cool stuff on the iPad is the norm. But we're not there today.
emp 14y ago
Sometimes I catch myself thinking this way and need to remind myself of my own experience. All one needs is a seed. My seed was planted on a closed system: an Atari 2600. Specifically, one with a Spectravideo Compumate keyboard. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/compumat.html http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/compumat... When I did as much as I could do on it, an Apple ][ clone was the next step. When the iPad came out, I lamented the closed platform, forgetting that my Apple ][ was not where I started. Something similar to my Spectravideo for iPad, is Codea http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/. Instantly accessible, and instantly running your code. A perfect seed for a kid who might express an interest in programming. Any kid who discovers a passion for programming has options to move onto any platform their desire takes them. The ubiquity of the iPad and other tablets might even promote the introduction to programming to anyone who is curious enough. Also, would people would stop calling an iPad a consumption device. It can be used this way. Many people do. But then, many people use their PC for little more than web browsing and to watch Netflix. It's not the platform, it's what interest them. My laptop is gathering dust because of my iPad. The naturally curious will naturally do more within existing constraints, and then break free of them.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  >> "The naturally curious will naturally do more within existing constraints, and then break free of them." The naturally curious will achieve more where there are less constraints. Making the iPad the default device for every kid out there is just making things worse for them in the end. I remember the startup screen of the C64: you could just type "load" and "run" if you wanted to play a game, but basically you could also write some stuff in basic and run it yourself. You could tinker all you want without having to install anything. The iPad IS a consumption device. By design. It's certainly not made to produce anything, and even if it is possible, it's never the best tool for the purpose. It's just a massive trade-offs device.
  - emp 14y ago
    Yes, we could tinker away with all the computers from the early 80s. We were lucky, this lower level of access was unavoidable. But what about today? One never needs to type "load" and "run". Instead of discovery by the kid, a parent who thinks programming might be interesting for their kid is a prerequisite. And then they need to be able to do the research and install perhaps Python. And then what? Playing around with Lua inside of Codea sent me right back to the immediate gratification of my Apple ][ In the end, does the platform matter? When I was a kid, I took apart the TV so I could see what was inside. Curious kids today will be similarly compelled to jailbreak their iPad. I'd be curious to know how many programmers there are here who are programmers because of a push in the right direction by an adult, or simply because there were curious kids.
ricardobeat 14y ago
I bet the computer Mr. Russel built was far harder to create anything with than an iPad.
- pizza 14y ago
  Probably true, but it was also probably created with creation, and not consumption, in mind.
- donaq 14y ago
  Well, it's a relative thing. At the time it was built, it was probably one of the easiest platforms to create things on, other platforms at the time involving actual physical equipment and work.
aufreak3 14y ago
This was one of the strongest criticisms of the original iPad by Alan Kay to Steve Jobs iirc. After that criticism, we got Garage Band for iPad (which imo is so insanely awesome I bet it will take at least 2 years to appear on other devices at that level of quality). We also have iBooks author, Brushes, and such "creative" apps. Overall, I see more "create" type of apps coming up. The hacking apps leave a lot to be desired, but also seem to be cropping up gradually. I'm sure soon enough we'll see some pretty powerful "make something new" kinds of tools on these devices (so sad that Scratch/BYOB can't happen on the iPad .. yet <<glaring at Apple>>). OTOH, the sun may burn out before the "take things apart" kind of tinkering happens with the full blessing of the device makers.
- fpgeek 14y ago
  > iBooks author iBooks Author is a Mac app that lets you create for (in some cases exclusively for) the iPad. It is not an iPad app that lets you create with an iPad.
  - aufreak3 14y ago
    Thanks for the correction. Wonder what I was thinking. Must've had Pages or something on my mind.
- WiseWeasel 14y ago
  I think the touch input is simply much less practical for certain repetitive tasks than a mouse and keyboard, due to the ergonomics. For text editing, lifting your arms from the keyboard area of the screen, or from a Bluetooth keyboard, to scroll the page, select a tool, insert the cursor, select some content, etc. is much less efficient than reaching sideways for a mouse and scrolling its wheel or clicking its buttons, with only subtle movements needed to position the cursor while you rest your hand on the mouse. It is both tiring and tedious to perform certain tasks without a mouse, and until eyeball tracking is workable, you're still going to want a mouse and keyboard device accessible.
jlarocco 14y ago
I don't really understand why people complain about this. iPads aren't tools for creating things. Do you get upset that your lamp doesn't allow you to create things? If you want a tablet that lets you hack it however you want then hop on Octopart, order the components you need, and start hacking away. But that's not the product Apple is selling, and it's not the product most people want to buy. Also, nobody is stopping anybody from building desktop PCs. As long as people are willing to buy the components I'm sure somebody will be selling them.
- fpgeek 14y ago
  > Do you get upset that your lamp doesn't allow you to create things? People don't usually suggest a lamp as an introductory computing device for children.
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    If they did, would you jump on the Internet and start complaining about lamps?
    - nsmartt 14y ago
      I might jump on the internet and complain about how consumers believe that's what lamps are for. edit: Or rather, I might jump on the internet and complain that the company making this particular lamp markets it as such.
    - Vivtek 14y ago
      I think the single-bit limitation is a real step backward.
      - Swizec 14y ago
        Add a long piece of paper and suddenly you have a limited manual turing machine. Add some LEGO Mindstorms, and suddenly you have a limited automatic turing machine.
pooriaazimi 14y ago
Maybe some people use their iPads for Facebook/Twitter/YouTube. I don't give a damn. They're the same boys/girls that were watching celebrity news and other useless TV shows 10 years ago, when you and I were watching "scientific/educational" shows on TV and hacking away with computers. I'm getting sick of this "iPad is for consumption" thing. How are you going to "produce" something if you haven't learned anything yet? For me, iPad is a learning device. In the past year, I've read maybe 15 (technical) books on my iPad. I wanted to read them for the past 3 years, I had downloaded their ebooks and stashed them neatly in a 'To-Read' folder, but never get to do so on a Mac or PC because of their form factor. In the past 2 weeks alone, I read 'JavaScript: The Good Parts' and first 5 chapters of 'Git Pro' (ePub, in iBooks), 70% of 'Head-First C' (PDF, in the fantastic ReaddleDocs[1] app) and 20 other technical/"intellectual" articles in Instapaper. Without iPad, I wouldn't have read them. --- [1]: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/readdledocs-for-ipad-pdf-viewer/id364901807?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/readdledocs-for-ipad-pdf-view... - Believe me, this app is fantastic. You don't know how great it is until you use it.
- saraid216 14y ago
  > I'm getting sick of this "iPad is for consumption" thing. Something you miss is that the central directive for the iPad was a consumer experience. It's intended to be roughly equivalent to a TV. It's great that you choose to use it for Discovery Channel and the like, but you're probably not using it to write code. And that's fine; it's not meant for that. And that's the point: it's not meant for that.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    You're quite right. My problem with the term 'consumption' is that it's almost always used negatively, as opposed to 'doing real work'. A better word might be 'passive learning'.
    - saraid216 14y ago
      It's an Americanism, too. The last time I was playing tourist in Mexico, they talked about how amazing TVs were because they were basically used as free, national education.
rimantas 14y ago
You know, I've learned (and still am) a lot about computers and programming from books too. The paper books. Those horrible horrible things that allowed consumption only. Also there are millions of people using desktops for consumption only. So no, no discussion about this. False dichotomies are not something I am going to discuss.
- maxerickson 14y ago
  Right, because the limitations of paper are largely an arbitrary software implementation detail. (I do think it is arbitrary; It would cost Apple very little to offer some mechanism to turn off the safety of only running apps from the app store; the small impact of jailbreaks on the ecosystem suggests it wouldn't introduce many new problems)
tomjen3 14y ago
It depends. I have used my iPad for completely frevious purposes and to read great books (and HN).
nilsbunger 14y ago
If modern smartphones had existed when I was a kid, I'm 100% sure I would've been building (probably crappy) games and apps for them when I was 12. The tools to create are more democratized, which is extremely powerful. Seeing high-quality apps in the app store, and knowing that I have all the tools to do the same, would've been the ultimate challenge for me. I would've spent my high-school years studying existing apps, open-source, etc, and trying to emulate successful ones. I know this b/c I DID spend most of my childhood trying to figure this stuff out, but available resources were so primitive (mid- to late-80's). Most people didn't even have a computer, and there was little open source or good-quality software to look at for inspiration.
- simonbrown 14y ago
  A tablet is more likely to be used as a computer replacement than a phone.
andyfleming 14y ago
Wouldn't you say that there is more digital consumer AS WELL AS production these days? I don't see a shift. I see a dramatic growth in both. I'm sure a number of people wouldn't be motivated to produce if there was not a large number of "consumers". Right?
- wtracy 14y ago
  Well, within the production end, there's a shift from "tinkering and having fun" to "this is something done by professionals, now shoo, kid". The necessary licensing fee to develop for iOS only reinforces this notion.
nell 14y ago
If you draw a mock up for your site or app is it consumption or creation?
einhverfr 14y ago
I feel like an old timer :-P C-64 and Microsoft Basic.....
tripzilch 14y ago
Absolutely. That was the bit that made me continue reading because I liked where the story was going, then it suddenly took a turn for the unexpectedly more awesome :)

joelhooks 14y ago

I picked up a deep love for using computers via a terminal with a 300 baud modem. Not that I don't agree with the sentiment, just saying there are a lot of paths.

mikecane 14y ago

Do not get me started or I will start madly screaming "Where is HyperCard?" futile sigh

ktizo 14y ago
Don't, or you'll set the rest of them off and then the doctors will come and sedate everybody again.

jiggy2011 14y ago

There will always be systems that can be explored & hacked as long as there is a community interested in doing so. Desktops are not going to "go away" , things will simply evolve. We have the technology to create many types of computers now, not just a box with a keyboard & monitor.

rosstafarian 14y ago

Is that really true? They have python "apps" for the ipad, but that's not what i mean. I like tinkering, always have my parents tell stories about how when i was a child I'd take things apart instead of playing with toys. IMO that type of curiosity is what makes a "hacker". Regarding apple products part of the fun is jailbreaking the device and figuring out how it works, trying to break the security etc. this will teach you A LOT. Yes you can tinker with android devices but with something closed like the ipad I get a drive to figure out how it works and break it. Apple might not like it much when their devices are jailbroken/the cydia store but you don't see them suing people like geohot as sony does.

rblackwater 14y ago
I'm sure they'd love to, but it's been ruled that jailbreaking is legal (to run your own or free software).
- fpgeek 14y ago
  In the US, at least, the legality of jailbreaking currently rests on a temporary DMCA exception that needs to be renewed every three years. Prospects for the renewal look good at the moment: http://www.teleread.com/copy-right/jailbreaking-dmca-exemption-likely-to-be-renewed/ http://www.teleread.com/copy-right/jailbreaking-dmca-exempti... But that is no reason to be complacent about the issue (or to think that this legality is written in anything but sand).
tuneczar 14y ago
"...but you don't see them suing people like geohot as sony does." Yes, yes you do. The ridiculous lawsuit that Apple is currently waging against Samsung is a prominent example. Frivolous waste of time. "Let's patent a rectangle. Wait, a black rectangle with rounded edges!" Good thing no one told any TV manufacturers about the no-rectangle patent! Silly. Don't get me wrong, though. I work on Macs every day; love 'em. But I think the platform wars should be over by now; being able to use *any device or OS or application should be the focus, shouldn't it? (For my part, I'm enjoying the flexibility to create, code, whatever on open and expansive Android devices in addition to my Mac these days. And I'm grateful that OSX is now based on a BSD variant.)

statictype 14y ago

when people use iPads they end up just using technology to consume things instead of making things. With a computer you can make things. Absolutely true. A lot of people like to mock the position that the iPad is a 'device for consumption' whenever a new story comes out about someone creating a song or painting on his iPad. Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC. I love my iPad. It's a great consumption device. But its terrible for tinkering and creativity (and this limitation is by design). Let me know when I can design flyers and brochures from it. Or write a program on it to do something useful that can be shared with others.

drumdance 14y ago
I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard good things about Garage Band on the iPad, and also for editing simple videos.
ryannielsen 14y ago
Well, there's a reason why it's worthy of a news story. You don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his Mac or PC. That's a bit like saying, "you don't see articles written whenever someone creates a song on his piano or violin", back in the 50s or 60s. There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies. Rather than lament the current state of new mobile platforms, why not celebrate these amazing new platforms? They're increasingly becoming creating rather than consuming platforms and, even if we will never easily create apps directly on them (which I don't believe is true), they're wonderful new distribution platforms. Just because they're not like the Apple ][s or C64s of yore doesn't mean it's the end of the hacking world. A new generation is growing up programming apps (yes, on their desktop computers right now) for this new world and can easily share their creations with millions. From where I'm sitting, this looks like a pretty interesting step forward. (And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store.)
- statictype 14y ago
  There was a time when computers weren't used to produce music, pictures, or movies. Yes, and we're at that state right now with tablets. Sure, we'll get there eventually but it won't happen by fooling ourselves into contentment by saying they are already great for producing creative work. why not celebrate these amazing new platforms I did say that I love my iPad. I've reached the point where I don't mind paying more for e-books that I can read on it than the dead-tree version that I have to lug around with me. I also use it extensively for mail, photos and browsing. It may eventually become a tinkerer's device. It's not there yet though. And for designing flyers and brochures on an iPad, you're welcome to use Pages or any number of other drawing or painting apps found on the App Store They let me use my own fonts (possibly in other languages)? Or let me cut a photo and place it on a page? The latter may not exist because no one has done it yet (ie, not a technical limitation). I'm pretty sure the former is a limitation of the platform rules that have been set. Anyway, I don't really disagree with much of what you say. We will eventually reach a point where creating cool stuff on the iPad is the norm. But we're not there today.

emp 14y ago

Sometimes I catch myself thinking this way and need to remind myself of my own experience. All one needs is a seed. My seed was planted on a closed system: an Atari 2600. Specifically, one with a Spectravideo Compumate keyboard. http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/compumat.html http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600/compumat... When I did as much as I could do on it, an Apple ][ clone was the next step. When the iPad came out, I lamented the closed platform, forgetting that my Apple ][ was not where I started. Something similar to my Spectravideo for iPad, is Codea http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/ http://twolivesleft.com/Codea/. Instantly accessible, and instantly running your code. A perfect seed for a kid who might express an interest in programming. Any kid who discovers a passion for programming has options to move onto any platform their desire takes them. The ubiquity of the iPad and other tablets might even promote the introduction to programming to anyone who is curious enough. Also, would people would stop calling an iPad a consumption device. It can be used this way. Many people do. But then, many people use their PC for little more than web browsing and to watch Netflix. It's not the platform, it's what interest them. My laptop is gathering dust because of my iPad. The naturally curious will naturally do more within existing constraints, and then break free of them.

ekianjo 14y ago
>> "The naturally curious will naturally do more within existing constraints, and then break free of them." The naturally curious will achieve more where there are less constraints. Making the iPad the default device for every kid out there is just making things worse for them in the end. I remember the startup screen of the C64: you could just type "load" and "run" if you wanted to play a game, but basically you could also write some stuff in basic and run it yourself. You could tinker all you want without having to install anything. The iPad IS a consumption device. By design. It's certainly not made to produce anything, and even if it is possible, it's never the best tool for the purpose. It's just a massive trade-offs device.
- emp 14y ago
  Yes, we could tinker away with all the computers from the early 80s. We were lucky, this lower level of access was unavoidable. But what about today? One never needs to type "load" and "run". Instead of discovery by the kid, a parent who thinks programming might be interesting for their kid is a prerequisite. And then they need to be able to do the research and install perhaps Python. And then what? Playing around with Lua inside of Codea sent me right back to the immediate gratification of my Apple ][ In the end, does the platform matter? When I was a kid, I took apart the TV so I could see what was inside. Curious kids today will be similarly compelled to jailbreak their iPad. I'd be curious to know how many programmers there are here who are programmers because of a push in the right direction by an adult, or simply because there were curious kids.

ricardobeat 14y ago

I bet the computer Mr. Russel built was far harder to create anything with than an iPad.

pizza 14y ago
Probably true, but it was also probably created with creation, and not consumption, in mind.
donaq 14y ago
Well, it's a relative thing. At the time it was built, it was probably one of the easiest platforms to create things on, other platforms at the time involving actual physical equipment and work.

aufreak3 14y ago

This was one of the strongest criticisms of the original iPad by Alan Kay to Steve Jobs iirc. After that criticism, we got Garage Band for iPad (which imo is so insanely awesome I bet it will take at least 2 years to appear on other devices at that level of quality). We also have iBooks author, Brushes, and such "creative" apps. Overall, I see more "create" type of apps coming up. The hacking apps leave a lot to be desired, but also seem to be cropping up gradually. I'm sure soon enough we'll see some pretty powerful "make something new" kinds of tools on these devices (so sad that Scratch/BYOB can't happen on the iPad .. yet <<glaring at Apple>>). OTOH, the sun may burn out before the "take things apart" kind of tinkering happens with the full blessing of the device makers.

fpgeek 14y ago
> iBooks author iBooks Author is a Mac app that lets you create for (in some cases exclusively for) the iPad. It is not an iPad app that lets you create with an iPad.
- aufreak3 14y ago
  Thanks for the correction. Wonder what I was thinking. Must've had Pages or something on my mind.
WiseWeasel 14y ago
I think the touch input is simply much less practical for certain repetitive tasks than a mouse and keyboard, due to the ergonomics. For text editing, lifting your arms from the keyboard area of the screen, or from a Bluetooth keyboard, to scroll the page, select a tool, insert the cursor, select some content, etc. is much less efficient than reaching sideways for a mouse and scrolling its wheel or clicking its buttons, with only subtle movements needed to position the cursor while you rest your hand on the mouse. It is both tiring and tedious to perform certain tasks without a mouse, and until eyeball tracking is workable, you're still going to want a mouse and keyboard device accessible.

jlarocco 14y ago

I don't really understand why people complain about this. iPads aren't tools for creating things. Do you get upset that your lamp doesn't allow you to create things? If you want a tablet that lets you hack it however you want then hop on Octopart, order the components you need, and start hacking away. But that's not the product Apple is selling, and it's not the product most people want to buy. Also, nobody is stopping anybody from building desktop PCs. As long as people are willing to buy the components I'm sure somebody will be selling them.

fpgeek 14y ago
> Do you get upset that your lamp doesn't allow you to create things? People don't usually suggest a lamp as an introductory computing device for children.
- jlarocco 14y ago
  If they did, would you jump on the Internet and start complaining about lamps?
  - nsmartt 14y ago
    I might jump on the internet and complain about how consumers believe that's what lamps are for. edit: Or rather, I might jump on the internet and complain that the company making this particular lamp markets it as such.
  - Vivtek 14y ago
    I think the single-bit limitation is a real step backward.
    - Swizec 14y ago
      Add a long piece of paper and suddenly you have a limited manual turing machine. Add some LEGO Mindstorms, and suddenly you have a limited automatic turing machine.

pooriaazimi 14y ago

Maybe some people use their iPads for Facebook/Twitter/YouTube. I don't give a damn. They're the same boys/girls that were watching celebrity news and other useless TV shows 10 years ago, when you and I were watching "scientific/educational" shows on TV and hacking away with computers. I'm getting sick of this "iPad is for consumption" thing. How are you going to "produce" something if you haven't learned anything yet? For me, iPad is a learning device. In the past year, I've read maybe 15 (technical) books on my iPad. I wanted to read them for the past 3 years, I had downloaded their ebooks and stashed them neatly in a 'To-Read' folder, but never get to do so on a Mac or PC because of their form factor. In the past 2 weeks alone, I read 'JavaScript: The Good Parts' and first 5 chapters of 'Git Pro' (ePub, in iBooks), 70% of 'Head-First C' (PDF, in the fantastic ReaddleDocs[1] app) and 20 other technical/"intellectual" articles in Instapaper. Without iPad, I wouldn't have read them. --- [1]: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/readdledocs-for-ipad-pdf-viewer/id364901807?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/readdledocs-for-ipad-pdf-view... - Believe me, this app is fantastic. You don't know how great it is until you use it.

saraid216 14y ago
> I'm getting sick of this "iPad is for consumption" thing. Something you miss is that the central directive for the iPad was a consumer experience. It's intended to be roughly equivalent to a TV. It's great that you choose to use it for Discovery Channel and the like, but you're probably not using it to write code. And that's fine; it's not meant for that. And that's the point: it's not meant for that.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  You're quite right. My problem with the term 'consumption' is that it's almost always used negatively, as opposed to 'doing real work'. A better word might be 'passive learning'.
  - saraid216 14y ago
    It's an Americanism, too. The last time I was playing tourist in Mexico, they talked about how amazing TVs were because they were basically used as free, national education.

rimantas 14y ago

You know, I've learned (and still am) a lot about computers and programming from books too. The paper books. Those horrible horrible things that allowed consumption only. Also there are millions of people using desktops for consumption only. So no, no discussion about this. False dichotomies are not something I am going to discuss.

maxerickson 14y ago
Right, because the limitations of paper are largely an arbitrary software implementation detail. (I do think it is arbitrary; It would cost Apple very little to offer some mechanism to turn off the safety of only running apps from the app store; the small impact of jailbreaks on the ecosystem suggests it wouldn't introduce many new problems)

tomjen3 14y ago

It depends. I have used my iPad for completely frevious purposes and to read great books (and HN).

nilsbunger 14y ago

If modern smartphones had existed when I was a kid, I'm 100% sure I would've been building (probably crappy) games and apps for them when I was 12. The tools to create are more democratized, which is extremely powerful. Seeing high-quality apps in the app store, and knowing that I have all the tools to do the same, would've been the ultimate challenge for me. I would've spent my high-school years studying existing apps, open-source, etc, and trying to emulate successful ones. I know this b/c I DID spend most of my childhood trying to figure this stuff out, but available resources were so primitive (mid- to late-80's). Most people didn't even have a computer, and there was little open source or good-quality software to look at for inspiration.

simonbrown 14y ago
A tablet is more likely to be used as a computer replacement than a phone.

andyfleming 14y ago

Wouldn't you say that there is more digital consumer AS WELL AS production these days? I don't see a shift. I see a dramatic growth in both. I'm sure a number of people wouldn't be motivated to produce if there was not a large number of "consumers". Right?

wtracy 14y ago
Well, within the production end, there's a shift from "tinkering and having fun" to "this is something done by professionals, now shoo, kid". The necessary licensing fee to develop for iOS only reinforces this notion.

nell 14y ago

If you draw a mock up for your site or app is it consumption or creation?

einhverfr 14y ago

I feel like an old timer :-P C-64 and Microsoft Basic.....

tripzilch 14y ago

Absolutely. That was the bit that made me continue reading because I liked where the story was going, then it suddenly took a turn for the unexpectedly more awesome :)