8 ms·

Privacy rights in the EU are being eroded as we speak. Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and s

Privacy rights in the EU are being eroded as we speak. Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. Also, sorry, but the idea that EU countries are in any position to build a serious hyperscaler is pure fiction. Growth, funding, risk, innovation - those are alien concepts to European entrepreneurs.

leftcenterright 2y ago
counterpoint: not everyone needs a hyperscaler. Especially with open source like Kubernetes out there. Of course the more experience companies have managing it, better the service becomes. But I don't see why it can't happen within EU.
- systemf_omega 2y ago
  K8s is an orchestration tool. You still need someone managing the physical hardware, and do it realiably at scale. That's what a hyperscaler does.
  - leftcenterright 1y ago
    I do understand that, my point was that the pieces needed to provide it as a managed service are much easier to come up with in comparison to what AWS had to do with Fargate. - https://www.scaleway.com/en/kubernetes-kapsule/ https://www.scaleway.com/en/kubernetes-kapsule/ - https://www.exoscale.com/syslog/introducing-scalable-kubernetes-service/ https://www.exoscale.com/syslog/introducing-scalable-kuberne...
- m00dy 2y ago
  dude, EU is home for around 500 million people. (correct me if I'm wrong). EU definitely needs a hyperscaler. Every single one of these people will need a digital identity along with their compute rights.
  - leftcenterright 1y ago
    wouldn't it work with 100 not-so-hyper scalers as well though? It does not have to be AWS, GCP, Azure.
nickslaughter02 2y ago
> Privacy rights in the EU are being eroded as we speak. Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. Last time I checked not even the US is proposing to install AI agents on everybody's phone to surveil your encrypted messages (look up chat control, last meeting not even 2 months ago). Soon people will start looking for non-EU VPNs to install Signal (the CEO said they would leave EU if the law passed). > Also, sorry, but the idea that EU countries are in any position to build a serious hyperscaler is pure fiction. Growth, funding, risk, innovation - those are alien concepts to European entrepreneurs. Disagree, some of the EU clouds are already well on their way.
- systemf_omega 2y ago
  > Disagree, some of the EU clouds are already well on their way. Feel free to drop a few links. Digital EU projects tend to be absolute disasters run by bureaucrats. They always result in some 100 page long document, talking about planning a plan for creating a planning framework. Also throw in the words sovereign and digital transformation, for maximum corpo-political bullshit.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Sure there's more bureaucracy here but in the end they work out fine. Galileo works perfectly as a counterpart to GPS. GDPR was also a resounding success.
    - briandear 2y ago
      Is that the GDPR that has polluted the web with cookie notices?
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Yes but that's only one tiny aspect of GDPR. Unfortunately this is an aspect where they caved in to corporate lobbying, they should have just mandated the obedience of the "do not track" flag (or a similar thing). That browsers set it by default is not a problem because the whole idea of GDPR is that tracking should be opt-in, not opt-out. But really this is a tiny part of GDPR. It is not just about the web even. And as annoying as the cookiewalls are, they also make the user more aware (I mean, why do you want permission to share my data with 572 "trusted partners"??). It also enforced some concepts that should already have been standard, like the purpose principle, explicit permission ("opt-in") etc. It has really made companies much more aware of data handling. At work we have data protection officers now, privacy advocates, every app we onboard now has to be reviewed in terms of what the data is used for, where it ends up, if we have agreements with them in terms of what it's used for etc. This is really great because before we had pretty much nothing like that. It was just move fast and break things, including customers' privacy that would get broken. And our company is one that doesn't make any money from tracking our customers, so it wasn't really targeted as us, but it still drove so much improvement. I think it will become much better now that we are disconnecting europe from US services. The main reason that tracking-informed ads are so much more valuable than context-informed ads, is that Google and Meta etc are promoting them. They control the auctions, and tracking is their moat. Nobody has such pervasive tracking networks as them. The disconnection from these services could really be the trigger for an EU-based context-informed advertising service.
wkat4242 2y ago
> Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. We are very far away from the status quo in the US. Some countries are overtaken by extreme right, which is worrying. But it's nothing like the US where the entire country went to shit overnight. Also, we don't have this singular president entity which has so much power that everything can be turned upside down in just one election. We have a president but she has very little power and influence compared to the way it is in the US. Also, our multi-party system prevents the two-party zero-sum setup that is present in the US where parties go to ever extreme methods to make the other side look bad (because a lose for one is a win for the other). For us it doesn't work that way.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

leftcenterright 2y ago

counterpoint: not everyone needs a hyperscaler. Especially with open source like Kubernetes out there. Of course the more experience companies have managing it, better the service becomes. But I don't see why it can't happen within EU.

systemf_omega 2y ago
K8s is an orchestration tool. You still need someone managing the physical hardware, and do it realiably at scale. That's what a hyperscaler does.
- leftcenterright 1y ago
  I do understand that, my point was that the pieces needed to provide it as a managed service are much easier to come up with in comparison to what AWS had to do with Fargate. - https://www.scaleway.com/en/kubernetes-kapsule/ https://www.scaleway.com/en/kubernetes-kapsule/ - https://www.exoscale.com/syslog/introducing-scalable-kubernetes-service/ https://www.exoscale.com/syslog/introducing-scalable-kuberne...
m00dy 2y ago
dude, EU is home for around 500 million people. (correct me if I'm wrong). EU definitely needs a hyperscaler. Every single one of these people will need a digital identity along with their compute rights.
- leftcenterright 1y ago
  wouldn't it work with 100 not-so-hyper scalers as well though? It does not have to be AWS, GCP, Azure.

nickslaughter02 2y ago

> Privacy rights in the EU are being eroded as we speak. Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. Last time I checked not even the US is proposing to install AI agents on everybody's phone to surveil your encrypted messages (look up chat control, last meeting not even 2 months ago). Soon people will start looking for non-EU VPNs to install Signal (the CEO said they would leave EU if the law passed). > Also, sorry, but the idea that EU countries are in any position to build a serious hyperscaler is pure fiction. Growth, funding, risk, innovation - those are alien concepts to European entrepreneurs. Disagree, some of the EU clouds are already well on their way.

systemf_omega 2y ago
> Disagree, some of the EU clouds are already well on their way. Feel free to drop a few links. Digital EU projects tend to be absolute disasters run by bureaucrats. They always result in some 100 page long document, talking about planning a plan for creating a planning framework. Also throw in the words sovereign and digital transformation, for maximum corpo-political bullshit.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Sure there's more bureaucracy here but in the end they work out fine. Galileo works perfectly as a counterpart to GPS. GDPR was also a resounding success.
  - briandear 2y ago
    Is that the GDPR that has polluted the web with cookie notices?
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Yes but that's only one tiny aspect of GDPR. Unfortunately this is an aspect where they caved in to corporate lobbying, they should have just mandated the obedience of the "do not track" flag (or a similar thing). That browsers set it by default is not a problem because the whole idea of GDPR is that tracking should be opt-in, not opt-out. But really this is a tiny part of GDPR. It is not just about the web even. And as annoying as the cookiewalls are, they also make the user more aware (I mean, why do you want permission to share my data with 572 "trusted partners"??). It also enforced some concepts that should already have been standard, like the purpose principle, explicit permission ("opt-in") etc. It has really made companies much more aware of data handling. At work we have data protection officers now, privacy advocates, every app we onboard now has to be reviewed in terms of what the data is used for, where it ends up, if we have agreements with them in terms of what it's used for etc. This is really great because before we had pretty much nothing like that. It was just move fast and break things, including customers' privacy that would get broken. And our company is one that doesn't make any money from tracking our customers, so it wasn't really targeted as us, but it still drove so much improvement. I think it will become much better now that we are disconnecting europe from US services. The main reason that tracking-informed ads are so much more valuable than context-informed ads, is that Google and Meta etc are promoting them. They control the auctions, and tracking is their moat. Nobody has such pervasive tracking networks as them. The disconnection from these services could really be the trigger for an EU-based context-informed advertising service.

wkat4242 2y ago

> Unless people there get off their high horse, they'll succumb to the same level of authoritarianism and surveillance as in the states. We are very far away from the status quo in the US. Some countries are overtaken by extreme right, which is worrying. But it's nothing like the US where the entire country went to shit overnight. Also, we don't have this singular president entity which has so much power that everything can be turned upside down in just one election. We have a president but she has very little power and influence compared to the way it is in the US. Also, our multi-party system prevents the two-party zero-sum setup that is present in the US where parties go to ever extreme methods to make the other side look bad (because a lose for one is a win for the other). For us it doesn't work that way.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]