7 ms·

Might want to check your math there. At $20/lb, zero waste (!!), 18g of coffee is $0.80/shot. Add in 10-15% waste (accurately predicting exact supply of beans i

by kneath 2y ago

Might want to check your math there. At $20/lb, zero waste (!!), 18g of coffee is $0.80/shot. Add in 10-15% waste (accurately predicting exact supply of beans is almost impossible, plus dialing in, mistakes, and training) and a more standard 22g basket, you get $1.12 per drink. Aiming for 25% COGS, that pushes up the price of a cup to $4.50 before milk, syrups, cups, etc. If the cost of coffee doubled, you'd be looking at the cost of coffee only being 38% COGS for a $6 drink. That kind of increase is not only going to completely remove all margins, but likely put you in the red per drink served.

dns_snek 2y ago
Those are some far fetched numbers, that's the price of premium/specialty coffee and the amount is easily a double shot, even triple by Italian standards. Common commercial beans are ~$24/kg at retail prices, and while 14g would be a double shot around here, let's assume that's a "single shot" since standards seem to differ a lot. That puts us at a much more reasonable $0.39 per "shot" of coffee after accounting for 15% waste. On a personal note, I would actively choose to pay $0.40 more for coffee if I knew that the money went back to the farmers who produce it.
paxys 2y ago
There is no "standard 22g basket". Regular 8-12 oz drinks at most coffee shops have a single 7-10g shot. Double shots and larger sizes always cost more.
- Arch-TK 2y ago
  Outside of Italy nobody uses single shot baskets. All espresso based drinks you will find will be double-based. And especially any place which is doing specialty coffee is going to be using larger doses to make extraction more consistent with lighter roasted coffee (in the realm from 18g to 28g). It's pretty normal nowadays to see 20g or 22g baskets used in specialty coffee shops. You can obviously order a single but the price difference is just a trick, the other shot gets dumped unless two people order singles at the same time.
  - paxys 2y ago
    I have no idea what you are talking about. The world's largest coffee chain (Starbucks) uses a single 1 oz/7 g espresso shot in their short (8oz) And tall (12oz) drink sizes. To get two shots you have to upgrade to "grande" (16oz), or specifically ask for (and pay for) an extra shot. Most coffee shops do the same for their smaller drinks.
    - Arch-TK 2y ago
      Starbucks makes coffee flavoured desert drinks. We are talking about specialty coffee shops. I've also never seen starbucks use a single shot basket to pour a single shot. They always just split, this is broadly the standard. Nobody outside of Italy is making single shots with a single shot basket.
      - rightbyte 2y ago
        > Starbucks makes coffee flavoured desert drinks. You don't have to order the caramel drinks? There are coffee, latte, cappuccino etc too everywhere, right?
      - kjkjadksj 2y ago
        It depends how nice the machine at your shop is. Some are on a more automated machine that just has a button for one or two shots.
    - gnabgib 2y ago
      Starbucks does use singles in some Tall drinks (your point stands - Latte & Cappuccino), but not all (Americano & Flat Whites have 2 shots in a tall). Meta: I've never seen anyone order a short, the only thing I've ever seen in those cups are espresso pulls or water (but it turns out a Short Flat White still has two shots - worth a look)
    - rlupi 2y ago
      <iamveryculinary country="it"> That's because Starbucks single espresso shot are absolutely atrocious. </iamveryculinary>
UncleEntity 2y ago
I just did my math (because I was curious, not out of doubt) and it came out to $0.33 per espresso -- $20 for a 2 pound bag of beans from the grocery store @ 15g per "double shot" using the stock basket that came with the machine. True, I'm not using 'premium' beans and probably doing it wrong but it works for me. Add in 'natural spring water' and 6oz of chocolate milk and I doubt it gets over $0.75.
- kneath 2y ago
  Yes, if you assume coffee costs half as much as previously stated, it does almost halve the cost.
  - snailmailstare 2y ago
    If you are paying $20 a lb for expresso beans you are probably not a coffee shop and definitely not buying the coffee that costs $6 at a chain coffee shop.
    - Kirby64 2y ago
      The standard size for a bag of coffee is 12oz, at least in the US. $20/lb is equivalent to $15/12oz. $15 for a 12oz bag of coffee is pretty standard for anything that isn't bottom rung these days. It's not even 'great' coffee at that price; I'm just talking about something mid-tier like Counter Culture coffee which is available nationwide. Anything cheaper than that and you are firmly into the budget coffee tiers.

by kneath 2y ago

dns_snek 2y ago

Those are some far fetched numbers, that's the price of premium/specialty coffee and the amount is easily a double shot, even triple by Italian standards. Common commercial beans are ~$24/kg at retail prices, and while 14g would be a double shot around here, let's assume that's a "single shot" since standards seem to differ a lot. That puts us at a much more reasonable $0.39 per "shot" of coffee after accounting for 15% waste. On a personal note, I would actively choose to pay $0.40 more for coffee if I knew that the money went back to the farmers who produce it.

paxys 2y ago

There is no "standard 22g basket". Regular 8-12 oz drinks at most coffee shops have a single 7-10g shot. Double shots and larger sizes always cost more.

Arch-TK 2y ago
Outside of Italy nobody uses single shot baskets. All espresso based drinks you will find will be double-based. And especially any place which is doing specialty coffee is going to be using larger doses to make extraction more consistent with lighter roasted coffee (in the realm from 18g to 28g). It's pretty normal nowadays to see 20g or 22g baskets used in specialty coffee shops. You can obviously order a single but the price difference is just a trick, the other shot gets dumped unless two people order singles at the same time.
- paxys 2y ago
  I have no idea what you are talking about. The world's largest coffee chain (Starbucks) uses a single 1 oz/7 g espresso shot in their short (8oz) And tall (12oz) drink sizes. To get two shots you have to upgrade to "grande" (16oz), or specifically ask for (and pay for) an extra shot. Most coffee shops do the same for their smaller drinks.
  - Arch-TK 2y ago
    Starbucks makes coffee flavoured desert drinks. We are talking about specialty coffee shops. I've also never seen starbucks use a single shot basket to pour a single shot. They always just split, this is broadly the standard. Nobody outside of Italy is making single shots with a single shot basket.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      > Starbucks makes coffee flavoured desert drinks. You don't have to order the caramel drinks? There are coffee, latte, cappuccino etc too everywhere, right?
    - kjkjadksj 2y ago
      It depends how nice the machine at your shop is. Some are on a more automated machine that just has a button for one or two shots.
  - gnabgib 2y ago
    Starbucks does use singles in some Tall drinks (your point stands - Latte & Cappuccino), but not all (Americano & Flat Whites have 2 shots in a tall). Meta: I've never seen anyone order a short, the only thing I've ever seen in those cups are espresso pulls or water (but it turns out a Short Flat White still has two shots - worth a look)
  - rlupi 2y ago
    <iamveryculinary country="it"> That's because Starbucks single espresso shot are absolutely atrocious. </iamveryculinary>

UncleEntity 2y ago

I just did my math (because I was curious, not out of doubt) and it came out to $0.33 per espresso -- $20 for a 2 pound bag of beans from the grocery store @ 15g per "double shot" using the stock basket that came with the machine. True, I'm not using 'premium' beans and probably doing it wrong but it works for me. Add in 'natural spring water' and 6oz of chocolate milk and I doubt it gets over $0.75.

kneath 2y ago
Yes, if you assume coffee costs half as much as previously stated, it does almost halve the cost.
- snailmailstare 2y ago
  If you are paying $20 a lb for expresso beans you are probably not a coffee shop and definitely not buying the coffee that costs $6 at a chain coffee shop.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    The standard size for a bag of coffee is 12oz, at least in the US. $20/lb is equivalent to $15/12oz. $15 for a 12oz bag of coffee is pretty standard for anything that isn't bottom rung these days. It's not even 'great' coffee at that price; I'm just talking about something mid-tier like Counter Culture coffee which is available nationwide. Anything cheaper than that and you are firmly into the budget coffee tiers.