7 ms·

Is no one in Europe not skeptical of the increase in defense spending? Things have costs, that money is having to come from somewhere. Is increasing traditiona

Is no one in Europe not skeptical of the increase in defense spending? Things have costs, that money is having to come from somewhere. Is increasing traditional military spending the way to go in the 21st century? If the decision is left to military leaders,they might spend massive amounts of money preparing to fight yesterday's war. If you set aside alarmist positions, it may very well possible that Russia has no interests in military conflict with rest of Europe beyond Ukraine. In that case what is the best thing Europeans could do? There is danger and risk in military over spending at this juncture, and Europe needs to be level headed about it.

guerrilla 2y ago
It sounds like you're not keeping up on things. We know where the money is coming from. It's headline news daily in the financial press. What are you talking about? And yes, of course we need to defend ourselves.
- xg15 2y ago
  The money is coming from increased debt.
deadbabe 2y ago
Europe has benefited a lot from not having to pour tons of money into defense spending. Europeans will be hurting if their countries suddenly have to shift finances for this. I think it’s much easier to just hunker down and appease the United States for four years and hope the next administrations are more merciful.
- cjes 2y ago
  "hope"
- GlobalFrog 2y ago
  Maybe... but probably not. Having to divert investments from one part of the economy to another is not that much a big problem: Russia has been doing the same and they have an economy of war that works more or less (some say they are on the brink of collapse and yet, they are still there). So, Europe can totally rely way less on the US, they just have to change their priorities, and they'll adapt just as Russia has adapted. Thinking they cannot is really presumptuous, or even comptemptuous (and a lot of people have made the same mistake with Russia by the way). And yet, at the moment, the US think that way, not believing in soft power any more, but only in pure pressure or even blackmail. If history teaches one thing, it is that you always create your own ennemies (Versailles treaty comes to mind).
  - whatwhaaaaat 2y ago
    That is not what is happening. Listen to Ursula. She’s telling you what is happening. Eu countries are being “allowed” to go into debt without triggering eu debt procedures. It won’t be reinvestment. It will be dilution of currency though debt. Something all too familiar to Americans.
    - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
      Correct. Interestingly enough, it will massively increase the supply of euro bonds, and probably pull in a bunch of cash that goes to US treasuries now. If there's enough pan European bonds (which there won't be) then the reserve currency status of the dollar could be threatened.
- jjk166 2y ago
  Bold of you to assume there will be a next administration in the United States in four years.
- modo_mario 2y ago
  "Europe has benefited a lot from not having to pour tons of money into defense spending." I'd say spending so much on American weapons has hurt it's own domestic capabilities if anything.
Eupolemos 2y ago
We have opened for €800 billions in investments through the EU. So, no. Calling anything "alarmist positions" now is just uninformed; Putin has said Russia wants the USSR territory back, their entire industry is now turned to produce weapons, their schools are "Putin-Jugend", they are currently invested in the first "great war" since WW2. And the US isn't just getting out of Europe - they have gone full turncoat. This is an unmitigated disaster for both US (citizens) and EU, and the EU is trying to manage what they can.
- throwaind29k 2y ago
  This conflict may be a disaster for Ukraine, but how is this conflict a disaster for Europe? Is Europe going to ratchet military spending at Putins's bluff?
  - grey-area 2y ago
    Because Putin will take whatever he can of Europe, starting with Ukraine and the baltic states. Putin’s Russia is already at war with Europe - assassinations, destabilisation operations, sabotage.
    - WA 2y ago
      I think the parent poster has a point. It's a good idea to pause for a moment and think about this critically: Why would Putin attack the EU? Just because he can? What's the gain? > destabilisation operations This might actually start to become more of a self-inflicted wound. The uprise of right-wing parties is already happening in the EU. Mostly voted for by people with less education and less wealth. If we spend more money on defense and less on social security, right-wing parties might get even more traction, which causes further destabilization. > sabotage Yes and it sucks. There's actually not much you can do about it, because of how international waters are treated legally. But you think rearming the EU will prevent sabotage in the future? I have my doubts. The current narrative seems to be "Ukraine is almost an EU member state and if we do not defend Ukraine, the EU will be next". Another view of the situation could be: "Ukraine is a special case and Putin would be very dumb to invade the EU".
rocqua 2y ago
Are you arguing against spending money on armies at all, or do you want Europe to spend money on more effective weapons?

guerrilla 2y ago

It sounds like you're not keeping up on things. We know where the money is coming from. It's headline news daily in the financial press. What are you talking about? And yes, of course we need to defend ourselves.

xg15 2y ago
The money is coming from increased debt.

deadbabe 2y ago

Europe has benefited a lot from not having to pour tons of money into defense spending. Europeans will be hurting if their countries suddenly have to shift finances for this. I think it’s much easier to just hunker down and appease the United States for four years and hope the next administrations are more merciful.

cjes 2y ago
"hope"
GlobalFrog 2y ago
Maybe... but probably not. Having to divert investments from one part of the economy to another is not that much a big problem: Russia has been doing the same and they have an economy of war that works more or less (some say they are on the brink of collapse and yet, they are still there). So, Europe can totally rely way less on the US, they just have to change their priorities, and they'll adapt just as Russia has adapted. Thinking they cannot is really presumptuous, or even comptemptuous (and a lot of people have made the same mistake with Russia by the way). And yet, at the moment, the US think that way, not believing in soft power any more, but only in pure pressure or even blackmail. If history teaches one thing, it is that you always create your own ennemies (Versailles treaty comes to mind).
- whatwhaaaaat 2y ago
  That is not what is happening. Listen to Ursula. She’s telling you what is happening. Eu countries are being “allowed” to go into debt without triggering eu debt procedures. It won’t be reinvestment. It will be dilution of currency though debt. Something all too familiar to Americans.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    Correct. Interestingly enough, it will massively increase the supply of euro bonds, and probably pull in a bunch of cash that goes to US treasuries now. If there's enough pan European bonds (which there won't be) then the reserve currency status of the dollar could be threatened.
jjk166 2y ago
Bold of you to assume there will be a next administration in the United States in four years.
modo_mario 2y ago
"Europe has benefited a lot from not having to pour tons of money into defense spending." I'd say spending so much on American weapons has hurt it's own domestic capabilities if anything.

Eupolemos 2y ago

We have opened for €800 billions in investments through the EU. So, no. Calling anything "alarmist positions" now is just uninformed; Putin has said Russia wants the USSR territory back, their entire industry is now turned to produce weapons, their schools are "Putin-Jugend", they are currently invested in the first "great war" since WW2. And the US isn't just getting out of Europe - they have gone full turncoat. This is an unmitigated disaster for both US (citizens) and EU, and the EU is trying to manage what they can.

throwaind29k 2y ago
This conflict may be a disaster for Ukraine, but how is this conflict a disaster for Europe? Is Europe going to ratchet military spending at Putins's bluff?
- grey-area 2y ago
  Because Putin will take whatever he can of Europe, starting with Ukraine and the baltic states. Putin’s Russia is already at war with Europe - assassinations, destabilisation operations, sabotage.
  - WA 2y ago
    I think the parent poster has a point. It's a good idea to pause for a moment and think about this critically: Why would Putin attack the EU? Just because he can? What's the gain? > destabilisation operations This might actually start to become more of a self-inflicted wound. The uprise of right-wing parties is already happening in the EU. Mostly voted for by people with less education and less wealth. If we spend more money on defense and less on social security, right-wing parties might get even more traction, which causes further destabilization. > sabotage Yes and it sucks. There's actually not much you can do about it, because of how international waters are treated legally. But you think rearming the EU will prevent sabotage in the future? I have my doubts. The current narrative seems to be "Ukraine is almost an EU member state and if we do not defend Ukraine, the EU will be next". Another view of the situation could be: "Ukraine is a special case and Putin would be very dumb to invade the EU".

rocqua 2y ago

Are you arguing against spending money on armies at all, or do you want Europe to spend money on more effective weapons?