5 ms·

I don't think a failed attempt at court reform (ideologically motivated or no) from almost a century ago is very convincing evidence that this is typical practi

by djur 2y ago

I don't think a failed attempt at court reform (ideologically motivated or no) from almost a century ago is very convincing evidence that this is typical practice on both sides of the aisle. > there was a lot of overlap in the mission statements of 18F and USDS, and it wasn't clear why both existed And now neither of them exist (the vast majority of what once was USDS is gone, and what remains has been converted into "DOGE"). I don't know what the quotes around "abolishing a government agency" indicate -- those words weren't used previously in this thread.

skissane 2y ago
> And now neither of them exist (the vast majority of what once was USDS is gone, and what remains has been converted into "DOGE"). Do any of the old USDS staff survive? I don't know. USDS acting administrator, Amy Gleason, used to work for USDS under the Trump and Biden admins, so it sounds like there is still room for "old USDS" staff in "new USDS" – if they are happy to be there, and if the new administration is happy to have them. And I don't think DOGE's remit is completely distinct from that of USDS. Of course, DOGE is a lot broader in scope than USDS, but according to Executive Order 14158 which established it, a big part of its mission is software modernization–same as old USDS was–and DOGE staff appear to include a number of software engineers, which also aligns with that mission. > I don't know what the quotes around "abolishing a government agency" indicate -- those words weren't used previously in this thread. You asked the question "Which government agencies have been targeted by Democrats for being too conservative?" – which seems to put 18F in the category of "government agencies" - if it isn't one in some sense, then the question isn't asking for a relevant comparator. And the title of this thread is "GSA Eliminates 18F", and "eliminates" is a synonym of "abolition". So, the premise of your question implies "abolishing a government agency". Which in a sense abolishing 18F is, since it was sort-of-kind-of a government agency – but strictly speaking it isn't, since strictly it wasn't – hence the quotes.
- djur 2y ago
  > Do any of the old USDS staff survive? 40 were laid off and 21 resigned (and Musk claimed that they would have been fired for being Democrats, regardless). That's approximately 60% of the total. https://apnews.com/article/doge-elon-musk-federal-government-resignations-usds-6b7e9b7022e6d89d69305e9510f2a43c https://apnews.com/article/doge-elon-musk-federal-government... As for "government agency", I was using your language: > If a government agency has a culture [etc]... the agency becomes a target Again, your claim here is that it's typical and predictable that new administrations conduct ideological purges on the civil service. So far, you haven't actually been able to name a single example of a Democratic administration doing that, and instead you're saying that maybe 18F was bad anyway, etc. Would you consider just admitting that your claim is false rather than resorting to this "by definition, strictly speaking, the premise of your question implies" ink cloud?
  - skissane 2y ago
    > Again, your claim here is that it's typical and predictable that new administrations conduct ideological purges on the civil service. No, I'm not denying this is reaching a level which hasn't been seen before. But, perceptions of political impartiality of civil servants have been greatly eroded. Imagine if the situation were reversed, if Democrats had a widespread perception that the federal bureaucracy had a pro-GOP/anti-Democrat bias – can you be so sure they wouldn't do similar things?
    - djur 2y ago
      I don't have to imagine. The ICE union endorsed Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024 -- the only presidential endorsements it has ever made. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/immigration-customs-enforcement-union-endorses-trump-228664 https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/immigration-customs-e... The FBI has traditionally leaned Republican (it has never had a Democratic director), as has the US military (especially the Air Force). Biden did not purge ICE, nor did he replace Trump's FBI director, etc.

by djur 2y ago

skissane 2y ago

> And now neither of them exist (the vast majority of what once was USDS is gone, and what remains has been converted into "DOGE"). Do any of the old USDS staff survive? I don't know. USDS acting administrator, Amy Gleason, used to work for USDS under the Trump and Biden admins, so it sounds like there is still room for "old USDS" staff in "new USDS" – if they are happy to be there, and if the new administration is happy to have them. And I don't think DOGE's remit is completely distinct from that of USDS. Of course, DOGE is a lot broader in scope than USDS, but according to Executive Order 14158 which established it, a big part of its mission is software modernization–same as old USDS was–and DOGE staff appear to include a number of software engineers, which also aligns with that mission. > I don't know what the quotes around "abolishing a government agency" indicate -- those words weren't used previously in this thread. You asked the question "Which government agencies have been targeted by Democrats for being too conservative?" – which seems to put 18F in the category of "government agencies" - if it isn't one in some sense, then the question isn't asking for a relevant comparator. And the title of this thread is "GSA Eliminates 18F", and "eliminates" is a synonym of "abolition". So, the premise of your question implies "abolishing a government agency". Which in a sense abolishing 18F is, since it was sort-of-kind-of a government agency – but strictly speaking it isn't, since strictly it wasn't – hence the quotes.

djur 2y ago
> Do any of the old USDS staff survive? 40 were laid off and 21 resigned (and Musk claimed that they would have been fired for being Democrats, regardless). That's approximately 60% of the total. https://apnews.com/article/doge-elon-musk-federal-government-resignations-usds-6b7e9b7022e6d89d69305e9510f2a43c https://apnews.com/article/doge-elon-musk-federal-government... As for "government agency", I was using your language: > If a government agency has a culture [etc]... the agency becomes a target Again, your claim here is that it's typical and predictable that new administrations conduct ideological purges on the civil service. So far, you haven't actually been able to name a single example of a Democratic administration doing that, and instead you're saying that maybe 18F was bad anyway, etc. Would you consider just admitting that your claim is false rather than resorting to this "by definition, strictly speaking, the premise of your question implies" ink cloud?
- skissane 2y ago
  > Again, your claim here is that it's typical and predictable that new administrations conduct ideological purges on the civil service. No, I'm not denying this is reaching a level which hasn't been seen before. But, perceptions of political impartiality of civil servants have been greatly eroded. Imagine if the situation were reversed, if Democrats had a widespread perception that the federal bureaucracy had a pro-GOP/anti-Democrat bias – can you be so sure they wouldn't do similar things?
  - djur 2y ago
    I don't have to imagine. The ICE union endorsed Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024 -- the only presidential endorsements it has ever made. https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/immigration-customs-enforcement-union-endorses-trump-228664 https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/immigration-customs-e... The FBI has traditionally leaned Republican (it has never had a Democratic director), as has the US military (especially the Air Force). Biden did not purge ICE, nor did he replace Trump's FBI director, etc.