6 ms·

Results matter, it's not hard to imagine that Apple considers the real risk of its promise and market position of being the privacy option being undermined by t

by tesch1 2y ago

Results matter, it's not hard to imagine that Apple considers the real risk of its promise and market position of being the privacy option being undermined by their supply chain risks, and leverage being used against them by privacy unfriendly actors.

jajko 2y ago
Results don't matter as much as PR, this is time when this is unfortunately valid. Just look at US elections. Measurable results affect rational aspects of our minds, PR attempts to attacks directly emotions bypassing the former, ie to induce impulsive shopping. Also, what actual security? Apple is as vulnerable as cheap chinese phones against state actors using 0days. Apple devices are still being stolen for spare parts, Apple doesnt secure each component AFAIK and thieves know this (very recent case with friend of a friend, they even knew how to bypass that built in airtag tracking). I haven't seen anything but very well crafted PR statements on this topic. All money-accessing apps on absolutely any phone are a security risk. But folks love convenience above all.
themacguffinman 2y ago
What's the added risk here? It's fine to "risk" almost the entire iPhone itself to be manufactured in China but the servers for some random AI features need to be pure? Sounds more like technical marketing and the company will treat any decisions around it as a marketing exercise.
- roughly 2y ago
  Apple's commented previously on why they build in China, and it's beyond just the pricing - the supply chain for every single part they use is in China and mostly in the same geographic region, so there's a level of flexibility there they couldn't get in the US. It wouldn't surprise me if it was genuinely a goal for Apple to manufacture more in the US - they're a notoriously privacy-focused (corporate, not end-user) company, and China's known for IP wandering its way off campus. They're not going to sacrifice the iPhone economics until the US option is actually viable, but I'm not surprised they keep kicking the tires on US manufacturing.
  - Reason077 2y ago
    > "the supply chain for every single part they use is in China" Not entirely true. Some of the highest value components in an iPhone, including the CPU/SoC, baseband, and the majority of OLED displays, are sourced from countries that are not mainland China.
    - lttlrck 2y ago
      You clipped off > and mostly in the same geographic region
  - tooltalk 2y ago
    It's mostly about cost and market access to China. Most smartphone supply-chain for Samsung and Apple exist outside China -- primarily in Japan (camera, sensors), South Korea (DRAM/NAND, OLED), and the US (various ICs fabbed at TSMC in Taiwan). There are quite a few reliable estimates/teardowns showing that these three countries account for close to about 90% of iPhone BOM (bill of materials). That's one reason why Samsung's smartphone unit was able to pull out of China without much disruption back in 2019 -- ie, low dependence on China. I feel that Apple has pushed this misleading narrative a bit too long to defend their massive China outsourcing.
  - nimish 2y ago
    > They're not going to sacrifice the iPhone economics until the US option is actually viable, but I'm not surprised they keep kicking the tires on US manufacturing. Apple could, with its immense cash hoard and cash flow, _make_ the US viable, but it chooses not to because it'd rather take the easy way out and have China or India or $COUNTRY fund it and return money to shareholders. They've returned money to shareholders rather than invest it in US operations, by design. This is a classic feint to protect Tim Cook's entire raison detre. He built his career on super high efficiency operations by outsourcing to cheap labor countries. It relies on the low-to-no tariff access to US consumer money. And I don't care that it's better for their stock price; that's Apple's problem not mine as a US citizen. And even as an Apple investor I would rather the money be spent on US on-shore operations.
- Reason077 2y ago
  They've actually been diversifying iPhone manufacturing away from China for a few years already. As of April 2024, 14% of all iPhones were already manufactured in India. That's around 30 million phones per year. And Apple plans to double their India manufacturing again by 2028.
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  So they shouldn't reduce risk anywhere, if they're currently unable to do it on the iPhone?

by tesch1 2y ago

jajko 2y ago

Results don't matter as much as PR, this is time when this is unfortunately valid. Just look at US elections. Measurable results affect rational aspects of our minds, PR attempts to attacks directly emotions bypassing the former, ie to induce impulsive shopping. Also, what actual security? Apple is as vulnerable as cheap chinese phones against state actors using 0days. Apple devices are still being stolen for spare parts, Apple doesnt secure each component AFAIK and thieves know this (very recent case with friend of a friend, they even knew how to bypass that built in airtag tracking). I haven't seen anything but very well crafted PR statements on this topic. All money-accessing apps on absolutely any phone are a security risk. But folks love convenience above all.

themacguffinman 2y ago

What's the added risk here? It's fine to "risk" almost the entire iPhone itself to be manufactured in China but the servers for some random AI features need to be pure? Sounds more like technical marketing and the company will treat any decisions around it as a marketing exercise.

roughly 2y ago
Apple's commented previously on why they build in China, and it's beyond just the pricing - the supply chain for every single part they use is in China and mostly in the same geographic region, so there's a level of flexibility there they couldn't get in the US. It wouldn't surprise me if it was genuinely a goal for Apple to manufacture more in the US - they're a notoriously privacy-focused (corporate, not end-user) company, and China's known for IP wandering its way off campus. They're not going to sacrifice the iPhone economics until the US option is actually viable, but I'm not surprised they keep kicking the tires on US manufacturing.
- Reason077 2y ago
  > "the supply chain for every single part they use is in China" Not entirely true. Some of the highest value components in an iPhone, including the CPU/SoC, baseband, and the majority of OLED displays, are sourced from countries that are not mainland China.
  - lttlrck 2y ago
    You clipped off > and mostly in the same geographic region
- tooltalk 2y ago
  It's mostly about cost and market access to China. Most smartphone supply-chain for Samsung and Apple exist outside China -- primarily in Japan (camera, sensors), South Korea (DRAM/NAND, OLED), and the US (various ICs fabbed at TSMC in Taiwan). There are quite a few reliable estimates/teardowns showing that these three countries account for close to about 90% of iPhone BOM (bill of materials). That's one reason why Samsung's smartphone unit was able to pull out of China without much disruption back in 2019 -- ie, low dependence on China. I feel that Apple has pushed this misleading narrative a bit too long to defend their massive China outsourcing.
- nimish 2y ago
  > They're not going to sacrifice the iPhone economics until the US option is actually viable, but I'm not surprised they keep kicking the tires on US manufacturing. Apple could, with its immense cash hoard and cash flow, _make_ the US viable, but it chooses not to because it'd rather take the easy way out and have China or India or $COUNTRY fund it and return money to shareholders. They've returned money to shareholders rather than invest it in US operations, by design. This is a classic feint to protect Tim Cook's entire raison detre. He built his career on super high efficiency operations by outsourcing to cheap labor countries. It relies on the low-to-no tariff access to US consumer money. And I don't care that it's better for their stock price; that's Apple's problem not mine as a US citizen. And even as an Apple investor I would rather the money be spent on US on-shore operations.
Reason077 2y ago
They've actually been diversifying iPhone manufacturing away from China for a few years already. As of April 2024, 14% of all iPhones were already manufactured in India. That's around 30 million phones per year. And Apple plans to double their India manufacturing again by 2028.
JohnBooty 2y ago
So they shouldn't reduce risk anywhere, if they're currently unable to do it on the iPhone?