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Not defending them, the Hitler laptop thing seems bad, but within Germany torchwalks are pretty normal and not Nazi associated. For example, there was one as pa

Not defending them, the Hitler laptop thing seems bad, but within Germany torchwalks are pretty normal and not Nazi associated. For example, there was one as part of a ceremony honoring Merkel as she left office.

hobofan 2y ago
There is a difference between a independently organized torchwalk, which especially after Charlottesville internationally gained popularity in far-right circles, and a "Zapfenstrich", a military honor granted to high ranking military/political leaders, which is tradition when the German chancelor/president leaves office. Yes, there are definitely also normal torchwalks in Germany (I have been part of some as part of church youthgroups). However with all the other information that has surfaced about suckless over the years, it really doesn't look like a coincidence that they choose that as a group activity on their get together over all other possible things you could be doing.
- brooke2k 2y ago
  notably they did this only a few weeks after the "unite the right" white supremacist riots in Charlottesville, which IIRC is where the whole tiki torch thing started
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    Different country, Suckless isn't based in the US.
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      I don't think it matters. The rise of white supremacist in the US has echos throughout the world as far-right parties feel emboldened. The world follows America for better or worse.
      - anonfordays 2y ago
        Of course it matters. I was in Germany at the time and it didn't even hit the news. Not every country follows every little grievance that happens in the US every day. A single death due to car ramming isn't notable in a country where dozens of children are shot to death in schools every year.
        9283409232 2y ago
        > Of course it matters. I was in Germany at the time and it didn't even hit the news This really doesn't matter. For reasons that I won't get into, I pay attention to Dutch news and most things that happen in The Netherlands don't make the news in the US. This doesn't mean you can't pay attention to another countries news. If you have certain ideologies you are more likely to pay attention to media that isn't mainstream.
- arp242 2y ago
  The only reason I know "torch walks" and "far right" are somehow associated is because of this whole suckless thing that keeps coming back. Not everyone has the US news cycle intravenously injected. In my home town there's a yearly torch walk to celebrate the end of the occupation, and this hasn't changed because of Charlottesville. As for "all the other information that has surfaced about suckless": there really isn't anything other than that hostname. I have actually asked the person with that hostname directly twice, and they opted not to answer. I agree it's not a good look, especially in the context of some other posts from that person. But it's not a good look for that person, not for all of suckless. If you look at all Python devs, or all Rust devs, or all HN posters, or all people 1.86cm in height: there's bound to be some unpleasant people there. It's just how things work. And if you're going to make an accusation as serious as that then you really need to do better than "surely it can't be a coincidence..." Personally I'd say that a community which coalesced around a particular view on software also happens to have similar extreme political views as something that's rather unlikely. The entire reason this whole "suckles are Nazis" thing is even a thing is because a single person kept bringing it up on HN, Lobsters and Twitter. As near as I can tell, it's a pretty successful campaign from one exceedingly toxic person with a grudge.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    I mean, having just learned about this drama, it sounds like they might be Nazis? Or at least have Nazi tendencies? Sounds like you have to chalk a few things up to coincidence to not even consider the possibility.
    - arp242 2y ago
      Like I said, the only "coincidence" is the torch walk thing. This isn't Elon "I am just throwing my heart out, and oh I also built the world's leading platform for antisemitism and retweeted antisemitic posts" Musk we're talking about here.
      - jdiff 2y ago
        It's not the only coincidence, though. One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters, and one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," a very specific term most often used to covertly slip antisemitism into the conversation.

hobofan 2y ago

There is a difference between a independently organized torchwalk, which especially after Charlottesville internationally gained popularity in far-right circles, and a "Zapfenstrich", a military honor granted to high ranking military/political leaders, which is tradition when the German chancelor/president leaves office. Yes, there are definitely also normal torchwalks in Germany (I have been part of some as part of church youthgroups). However with all the other information that has surfaced about suckless over the years, it really doesn't look like a coincidence that they choose that as a group activity on their get together over all other possible things you could be doing.

brooke2k 2y ago
notably they did this only a few weeks after the "unite the right" white supremacist riots in Charlottesville, which IIRC is where the whole tiki torch thing started
- anonfordays 2y ago
  Different country, Suckless isn't based in the US.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    I don't think it matters. The rise of white supremacist in the US has echos throughout the world as far-right parties feel emboldened. The world follows America for better or worse.
    - anonfordays 2y ago
      Of course it matters. I was in Germany at the time and it didn't even hit the news. Not every country follows every little grievance that happens in the US every day. A single death due to car ramming isn't notable in a country where dozens of children are shot to death in schools every year.
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        > Of course it matters. I was in Germany at the time and it didn't even hit the news This really doesn't matter. For reasons that I won't get into, I pay attention to Dutch news and most things that happen in The Netherlands don't make the news in the US. This doesn't mean you can't pay attention to another countries news. If you have certain ideologies you are more likely to pay attention to media that isn't mainstream.
arp242 2y ago
The only reason I know "torch walks" and "far right" are somehow associated is because of this whole suckless thing that keeps coming back. Not everyone has the US news cycle intravenously injected. In my home town there's a yearly torch walk to celebrate the end of the occupation, and this hasn't changed because of Charlottesville. As for "all the other information that has surfaced about suckless": there really isn't anything other than that hostname. I have actually asked the person with that hostname directly twice, and they opted not to answer. I agree it's not a good look, especially in the context of some other posts from that person. But it's not a good look for that person, not for all of suckless. If you look at all Python devs, or all Rust devs, or all HN posters, or all people 1.86cm in height: there's bound to be some unpleasant people there. It's just how things work. And if you're going to make an accusation as serious as that then you really need to do better than "surely it can't be a coincidence..." Personally I'd say that a community which coalesced around a particular view on software also happens to have similar extreme political views as something that's rather unlikely. The entire reason this whole "suckles are Nazis" thing is even a thing is because a single person kept bringing it up on HN, Lobsters and Twitter. As near as I can tell, it's a pretty successful campaign from one exceedingly toxic person with a grudge.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  I mean, having just learned about this drama, it sounds like they might be Nazis? Or at least have Nazi tendencies? Sounds like you have to chalk a few things up to coincidence to not even consider the possibility.
  - arp242 2y ago
    Like I said, the only "coincidence" is the torch walk thing. This isn't Elon "I am just throwing my heart out, and oh I also built the world's leading platform for antisemitism and retweeted antisemitic posts" Musk we're talking about here.
    - jdiff 2y ago
      It's not the only coincidence, though. One of their hosts is named after Hitler's military headquarters, and one of them has been known to go off about "Cultural Marxism," a very specific term most often used to covertly slip antisemitism into the conversation.