7 ms·

The real cost will play out over years after Trump's term. When funding cuts like this hit, researchers and programs decide to find homes elsewhere with better

The real cost will play out over years after Trump's term. When funding cuts like this hit, researchers and programs decide to find homes elsewhere with better funding. Cuts like this cause current and future talent loss that is very slow to reverse.

_bin_ 2y ago
[flagged]
- ks2048 2y ago
  We had nearly a century of the best scientists in the world wanting to come to the US to study, teach, and work. To view this as America loosing and the rest of the world getting a "free ride" is pretty crazy.
  - _bin_ 2y ago
    how else would you prefer to frame America footing a bill for a benefit to everyone? we benefited, sure, but everyone else received the same benefit for zero cost. we spend a lot of our GDP on healthcare. part of this is due to other countries paying much less for new developments than we do. when you amortize your R&D costs across a small population instead of your whole market, that will mean charging everyone in that small population much more. my issue isn't especially with the funding so much as it is with ensuring the rest of the world pays what they owe. America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that. so too are many, many others. i am pretty comfortable at a fundamental level with public support for medical research. i am not comfortable with failing to protect the results of that research and ensuring that if anyone outside the borders of our country wants a scrap of benefit from those, we enforce payment for that benefit.
    - ks2048 2y ago
      Our insane spending on health care is independent from funding of scientific research, and only a small amount of your tax funds it (again - different than spending on "healthcare"). Being that country that makes scientific breakthroughs is a good thing. Name one of these "free loading" countries out there is in better shape because they don't do science and just sit back reap the benefits?
    - hobs 2y ago
      In trying to get "everyone to pay what they owe" the self own is worth far more than what they would pay. Science doesn't really care about borders and making sure its a winner take all mentality will mean you just wont be included in the game.
    - mindslight 2y ago
      Have you tried calculating what your tax bill is going to be when the US can no longer run a deficit after USD is no longer the world reserve currency? Funding scientific research isn't a zero-sum "charity project", rather it's spending some of the proceeds from our demurrage currency on maintaining the leadership position that makes it still be considered a good store of value.
      - hgomersall 2y ago
        Whether the US can or cannot run a deficit has nothing to do with the dollar being a reserve currency. It being a reserve currency means it probably will run a deficit but that's just a reflection of foreigners wanting to save US dollars, which is true for many country's currency. The deficit is just a reflection of the sectoral balances[1], which governments don't realistically influence through normal policy. They obviously can change them, but it generally results in significant undesirable outcomes. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances
        tokioyoyo 2y ago
        US will have to prove that these big changes are a sogn towards more stability, for others to keep saving in USD. Gold markets are pretty insane nowadays, which makes me think of my own savings.
        mindslight 2y ago
        Sure, "deficit" is crappy political term that mostly serves as a martingale and rallying cry for kayfabe austerity politics. Forgive me for stooping. I'm really talking about monetary creation/inflation - the part of the budget deficit that is new "loans" from another branch of government (Federal Reserve), plus "loans" from the Federal Reserve into the financial industry to do things like grow the housing bubble. The belief that USD will continue to be redeemable for best in class future goods (technological widgets, military hardware, trade and military alliances, etc) combined with the stickiness of transaction costs (especially at nation-state scale) is what allows that ongoing monetary inflation without commensurate price inflation.
    - KennyBlanken 2y ago
      > America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). By what measure? Life expectancy? Happiness? Wealth? We have the highest economic stratification of almost any nation in the developed world, by a longshot. We're the only developed nation that does not provide universal healthcare, does not guarantee sick time and does not guarantee parental leave. We have the most barriers to unionization of any developed nation We have the highest number of incarcerated people, by both total number and percentage of our population, of any developed nation. We're also among the worst countries in terms of alignment between what the populace wants for policies and what they get from their elected representatives, so we're failing pretty hard at the whole "democracy" thing, too. > i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that Great news! I have the cure. All you need to do is google "federal budget percent foreign aid" and you'll feel so much better. It's just one percent of the federal budget. Since we're on the subject of "paying more than we get back" and our tax bills...what state do you live in, dear commenter who feels ripped off by his tax bill?
      - _bin_ 2y ago
        “just” one percent is quite a lot given how many things the feds do. i’ll take the hundreds of dollars back on my taxes over paying for transsexual operas in south america or food for people who chant “death to America” you are, of course, correct, we urgently must also end social security and medicare, as they represent large proportions of the budget.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - BoiledCabbage 2y ago
      > we spend a lot of our GDP on healthcare. part of this is due to other countries paying much less for new developments than we do. ... > my issue isn't especially with the funding so much as it is with ensuring the rest of the world pays what they owe. America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that. so too are many, many others. Man, spoken like a true Brexit voter - absolutely sure that they're tired of how the EU is just leaching off the backs of the unappreciated UK. Placing the blame on those foreigners for all the problems at home, and cutting them off will show them how much they needed us all along. Some storylines are just too tantalizing to looking into the details of. They must be correct because they feel correct to me. As the UK so bluntly and drastically learned, getting suckered by those storylines sucks when reality comes calling.
      - _bin_ 2y ago
        the only thing this suggests that brexit was the wrong way to extract adequate value from the leech nations of europe. it doesn’t negate the basic point that the EU consists of many countries relying on net contributions from only a few. britain’s point wasn’t wrong. thankfully, America is a much larger and more important nation so we should be able to do a better job of it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

_bin_ 2y ago

[flagged]

ks2048 2y ago
We had nearly a century of the best scientists in the world wanting to come to the US to study, teach, and work. To view this as America loosing and the rest of the world getting a "free ride" is pretty crazy.
- _bin_ 2y ago
  how else would you prefer to frame America footing a bill for a benefit to everyone? we benefited, sure, but everyone else received the same benefit for zero cost. we spend a lot of our GDP on healthcare. part of this is due to other countries paying much less for new developments than we do. when you amortize your R&D costs across a small population instead of your whole market, that will mean charging everyone in that small population much more. my issue isn't especially with the funding so much as it is with ensuring the rest of the world pays what they owe. America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that. so too are many, many others. i am pretty comfortable at a fundamental level with public support for medical research. i am not comfortable with failing to protect the results of that research and ensuring that if anyone outside the borders of our country wants a scrap of benefit from those, we enforce payment for that benefit.
  - ks2048 2y ago
    Our insane spending on health care is independent from funding of scientific research, and only a small amount of your tax funds it (again - different than spending on "healthcare"). Being that country that makes scientific breakthroughs is a good thing. Name one of these "free loading" countries out there is in better shape because they don't do science and just sit back reap the benefits?
  - hobs 2y ago
    In trying to get "everyone to pay what they owe" the self own is worth far more than what they would pay. Science doesn't really care about borders and making sure its a winner take all mentality will mean you just wont be included in the game.
  - mindslight 2y ago
    Have you tried calculating what your tax bill is going to be when the US can no longer run a deficit after USD is no longer the world reserve currency? Funding scientific research isn't a zero-sum "charity project", rather it's spending some of the proceeds from our demurrage currency on maintaining the leadership position that makes it still be considered a good store of value.
    - hgomersall 2y ago
      Whether the US can or cannot run a deficit has nothing to do with the dollar being a reserve currency. It being a reserve currency means it probably will run a deficit but that's just a reflection of foreigners wanting to save US dollars, which is true for many country's currency. The deficit is just a reflection of the sectoral balances[1], which governments don't realistically influence through normal policy. They obviously can change them, but it generally results in significant undesirable outcomes. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectoral_balances
      - tokioyoyo 2y ago
        US will have to prove that these big changes are a sogn towards more stability, for others to keep saving in USD. Gold markets are pretty insane nowadays, which makes me think of my own savings.
      - mindslight 2y ago
        Sure, "deficit" is crappy political term that mostly serves as a martingale and rallying cry for kayfabe austerity politics. Forgive me for stooping. I'm really talking about monetary creation/inflation - the part of the budget deficit that is new "loans" from another branch of government (Federal Reserve), plus "loans" from the Federal Reserve into the financial industry to do things like grow the housing bubble. The belief that USD will continue to be redeemable for best in class future goods (technological widgets, military hardware, trade and military alliances, etc) combined with the stickiness of transaction costs (especially at nation-state scale) is what allows that ongoing monetary inflation without commensurate price inflation.
  - KennyBlanken 2y ago
    > America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). By what measure? Life expectancy? Happiness? Wealth? We have the highest economic stratification of almost any nation in the developed world, by a longshot. We're the only developed nation that does not provide universal healthcare, does not guarantee sick time and does not guarantee parental leave. We have the most barriers to unionization of any developed nation We have the highest number of incarcerated people, by both total number and percentage of our population, of any developed nation. We're also among the worst countries in terms of alignment between what the populace wants for policies and what they get from their elected representatives, so we're failing pretty hard at the whole "democracy" thing, too. > i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that Great news! I have the cure. All you need to do is google "federal budget percent foreign aid" and you'll feel so much better. It's just one percent of the federal budget. Since we're on the subject of "paying more than we get back" and our tax bills...what state do you live in, dear commenter who feels ripped off by his tax bill?
    - _bin_ 2y ago
      “just” one percent is quite a lot given how many things the feds do. i’ll take the hundreds of dollars back on my taxes over paying for transsexual operas in south america or food for people who chant “death to America” you are, of course, correct, we urgently must also end social security and medicare, as they represent large proportions of the budget.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - BoiledCabbage 2y ago
    > we spend a lot of our GDP on healthcare. part of this is due to other countries paying much less for new developments than we do. ... > my issue isn't especially with the funding so much as it is with ensuring the rest of the world pays what they owe. America has functioned since WWII as a large charity project for those less capable of running a great nation (namely, everyone). i am pretty sick of seeing my tax bill every year and knowing that. so too are many, many others. Man, spoken like a true Brexit voter - absolutely sure that they're tired of how the EU is just leaching off the backs of the unappreciated UK. Placing the blame on those foreigners for all the problems at home, and cutting them off will show them how much they needed us all along. Some storylines are just too tantalizing to looking into the details of. They must be correct because they feel correct to me. As the UK so bluntly and drastically learned, getting suckered by those storylines sucks when reality comes calling.
    - _bin_ 2y ago
      the only thing this suggests that brexit was the wrong way to extract adequate value from the leech nations of europe. it doesn’t negate the basic point that the EU consists of many countries relying on net contributions from only a few. britain’s point wasn’t wrong. thankfully, America is a much larger and more important nation so we should be able to do a better job of it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]