8 ms·

Garzik: An Andre To Remember

233 points by asto 14y ago

andrewvc 14y ago
That's a sad story, and one that's too common in our industry. Mental health issues in software are sadly under-discussed. If you feel like making a difference I'd recommend donating to the Brain & Behavior Research Foundation. They fund studies into mental health disorders, an area of science that is still only vaguely understood. http://bbrfoundation.org/ http://bbrfoundation.org/
- tsahyt 14y ago
  They're probably not just under-discussed in software but in any industry, because they're under-discussed in society as a whole. I don't know about the US but I believe mentally ill people often refuse to seek help even after they recognized their condition simply because they realize they're "not normal", afraid to be put in the drawer labeled with "crazy guys". I think though that mental illnesses are a lot more common than we realize, and to some degree society is actually breeding them. It's a very complex topic though, so take that as an opinion, not as facts or anything.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    I think it makes more sense as just another means by which business consumes workers. I know that sounds all profound and over-generalized crypto-Marxist, but if you look back upon history I think you'll see a consumption metaphor where business is basically treating workers as fungible, resisting healthcare benefits and other quality-of-life exchanges. Margins are to be applied to productivity, and the underling's health is not necessarily a primary concern where they can be replaced.
Udo 14y ago
It's hard to disagree with the general sentiment, but trading a life for a computing project is not really what happened here. Software development does not cause mental illness. In some cases, stressful jobs contribute to a person's mental degradation - but it's not like there was ever an option of trading in this guys passion for technology in exchange for a healthy brain.
- cynicalkane 14y ago
  That's a false dichotomy. The author of the article is suggesting you can trade obsession with technology for a healthier brain, and that this trade may have cost a life in this instance. Also, passion need not be obsession.
- flexd 14y ago
  I feel the real message of the article/letter is to take better care of yourself. No project is worth ending up in a situation where you feel life is not worth living, and while software and other computer things are cool and for most of us probably both work and a hobby, it's important to take a break from things. I know I would go absolutely crazy if I could not go outside to do things like ride a mountain bike, eat some ice cream or simply just not sit in front of a monitor every day. If you are feeling stressed, take a break. :) Edit: I know it can be hard, and I know people who suffer from depressions can seem perfectly fine. A girl I went to school with recently killed herself, much to my surprise, as through my very limited contact with her these past years she seemed very happy in a relationship and about to finish school. The next thing I know she had ended her life. Depression is not something to be taken lightly. I wish I had known, and I wish there was something I could have done or said.
- marketer 14y ago
  Programming all day isn't what our bodies are genetically designed to do. Programming involves countless hours of ruminative thoughts, and limiting human contact, and stress, all of which are ingredients for mental illness.
- dspillett 14y ago
  > Software development does not cause mental illness. Correct, no job/task does. But burnout can, and any task/job/what-ever can cause that if you let yourself get into an unhealthy cycle while performing it. Development seems to be a task that is more prone to this though, I think because with many other tasks (that are more physical) other parts of your body tend to give out first and you have to take a break (if only to sleep or (eventually) pass out if you don't sleep voluntarily) before the point where your brain jumps track.
- 14y ago
paulrademacher 14y ago
And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life. Every point except for Seek Help is just "cheer up, pal" bunk.
- spaghetti 14y ago
  Getting help is goal number one. However leading a more balanced life helps tremendously with preventing and maintaining some mental issues associated with thousands of hours of intellectually intense work. I feel strongly the above suggestions of spending more time outdoors, meeting new people etc are much more than "just cheer up" advice.
  - trafficlight 14y ago
    When you're in deep depression you literally can't make yourself do anything. You may logically and reasonably know that you should go outside but you can't force yourself to actually open the door.
  - derefr 14y ago
    The problem with that kind of advice is that doing those things (spending time outdoors, meeting new people) require willpower, and being depressed, or anxious, or in a number of other states of mind, saps your willpower, and therefore your ability to execute on any of these suggestions. Practical suggestions are the kind of things a therapist will recommend when you do seek help: cognitive behavioral therapy, or pharmacological solutions. They're practical because talking to someone on a set schedule every week, or taking a pill on a set schedule every day, requires much less willpower than the things people usually suggest, but has effects which increase your willpower, and thus your capacity for attempting those other things.
- raverbashing 14y ago
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
hobin 14y ago
I was going to respond to a few of the comments here, but then I realized I was going to say pretty much the same to all of them, so here goes: I've got clinical depression. What this means is that there is something fundamentally wrong in my brain that causes me to be depressed. There is no direct environmental cause that makes me depressed. Now, here's what many people get wrong about severe depression: Severe depression does NOT mean that exercise, a healthy diet and getting a social life won't help at all. Rather, depression completely drains your motivation to do any of those things. Which in turn make you more depressed. Which makes you even less likely to do any of them. And so on and so forth. It's 'positive' feedback, but it starts with a neurological problem. This is why all the 'cheer up'-sort of advice doesn't help people who're depressed, and why it tends to only make them more miserable. Of course, this is only my experience. I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who are depressed for reasons found in their environment, and then get stuck in the same loop. But it would be ridiculous to presume that I'm unique in this regard.
- singular 14y ago
  I also have clinical depression, and this has also been my experience. Something which also adds to the problems is that people so often condescend - 'you won't feel better unless you do X, Y or Z' and actually essentially accuse you of bringing it on yourself. And a lot of the problem is the guilt you feel about everything, so it's the worst possible thing you can do for a depressed person. I find having some project that gives you an output is important, to contradict the standard 'oh don't spend so much time on a computer project' points. The alternative a lot of the time for me is spending all day in bed because I feel so low, so having an outlet matters. But of course you then find it hard to balance that. Having said that, all the standard healthy advice is important too. It's just really important to differentiate between mild and severe depression - it's like the difference between having the flu and people recommending painkillers and having a serious chronic disease. The advice is good for mild depression but really not going to touch anything for the severe variety. For people who are lucky enough not to suffer from severe depression - don't presume to know what it's like because you've felt a little bit low before. /rant
  - 14y ago
combataircraft 14y ago
On the other words: All this software development shits are NOT for EARTH. They are for the price competition of capitalist system and can only impact prices in capitalist cities, nothing more than this. Don't put so much meaning and don't think you're becoming a better person when you commit to a repository.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  That isn't true. Software is just a kind of tool. Some software is fart apps, some is enterprise CRM but a lot is really useful in tangible ways that have nothing directly to do with capitalism. I also disagree with the implication that there is something inherently unworthy with selling things on the free market. This is the way most people on earth get most of the things they need and in many cases it is the most efficient rationing mechanism practicable. Beyond all this, it's good to do things you love. If someone really enjoys the activity then it is none of my business to say they shouldn't because it is at worst quite harmless.
  - combataircraft 14y ago
    study economics, read history, learn the truth my friend.
catastrophe 14y ago
I haven't been formally diagnosed with bipolar, but I sure as heck have many of the symptoms, including feeling elation and depression at the same time. I also have chronic depression. What does that mean? Nothing, except I completely see myself in Andre's description. What am I doing about it? Exercising, reading affirmations, trying to watch the diet (tough when broke) etc, etc. But I read Andre's story and it makes me very sad.
Monotoko 14y ago
RIP Andre. This makes me think about the people I interact with every day, I have friends who won't accept they even have a problem and believe everything is fine. They seem unble to see it, how do you convince someone like that to go to a therapist?
steve8918 14y ago
I had a good friend from high school who was brilliant. We were academic rivals, but he definitely outworked everyone in the entire school. He got into Duke and graduated with a double major in engineering and economics. He got his law degree, and then his Master's in Law, and passed the bar exam in New York and I think CA. He was working in patent law in NYC for a few years, and then abruptly quit and moved back home. He said he had some ideas on businesses, and it seemed rational. He started venturing into religion, not for the sake of religion, but to explore the concept of morality. He didn't have a Jewish background, but he became very interested in Judaism because of it's views on morality, and I even bought a book on the Talmud at his insistence, so that we could talk about it. We would have pretty elaborate discussions on morality, etc, over email. He was engaged to get married to a lovely girl, and things looked fine. Then, just before they got married, they abruptly cancelled their wedding. I emailed him, and I asked him "How are things going? Enquiring minds want to know!" His only response was "Who are these enquiring minds that you are asking on behalf of?" We exchanged a few emails after that, he accused me of being immoral, and then I never heard from him again. I contacted his fiancee, and apparently he was exhibiting signs of paranoid schizophrenia. He had become increasingly paranoid over the last few years, and become more and more disassociated with reality. After that, he basically disappeared. He was always a bit paranoid about leaving his mark on the Internet, and had multiple fake email addresses, so trying to track him down was basically impossible. Last year, after many years of no contact, I got a phone call from him, presumably from a number that wasn't his, because he had recently realized that in one of his discussions on his business over 10 years ago, he may have gotten me to agree to terms that would have been personally unfavorable, and he wanted to release me from all obligations from this agreement. I didn't know what he was talking about, but we never did anything more than talk about things, and his "businesses" never amounted to anything except talking. But I agreed to be absolved from those obligations. Then asked how things were with him, and he was extremely vagued, and then hung up on me. It's very sad, because he was very brilliant, but it's clear he is mentally ill. And there's nothing I can do about it. He has no siblings, and both his parents are dead, so there's no one I can even contact. It sounds similar to the case of Garzik in that I don't know if the concept of "take care of yourself" is relevant. He probably didn't realize he was mentally ill, if what the original emailer said was true about him being paranoid. It probably would have been something the family would need to pursue, but getting someone evaluated, etc, is hard, and as the emailer said, it would only increase the negative feedback loop for Garzik, since he would suspect everyone was out to get him, so it's a really tough problem to solve.
zackmorris 14y ago
This story hits close to home for me. As one of the countless others like me on Hacker News who started out their educations and careers with so much promise, all I feel anymore is this tremendous sense of failure and missed opportunity. These days I think of programming the way I think of working out: intense bursts of focus on creativity for maybe 2-4 hours if I'm lucky, and then hours to days of melancholy because the tools and methodologies I'm using are all garbage. Examples of mainstream trash: ios, objective-c, flash, php, c++, 802.11, usb, xml, html5, mpeg, mp3, dram caches, opengl, just on and on and on. Literally every tool I use on a daily basis, every file format, every communication protocol, everything, all fatally flawed in some way. My life has been an almost complete waste. I don't know much about IDE/ATA but it must be quite a garbage dump to traverse. Turning that into something clean like a socket/file reference is remarkable. Just think of all the things that don't work on hard drives: how they fail to write the last bit of data in a power failure or maintain directory consistency, how they were so far behind on caching and hybrid flash/platter drives, just on and on, a tower of babel of remarkably cheap but inadequate hardware. Dealing with that, and the layers of politics that perpetuate such monstrosities would be enough to drive a person mad. Thank god I'm not depressed though. I was severely out of it from 2000-2010 for a lot of obvious reasons but I finally let everything go and have never been happier. I. Am. Not. Depressed. It's glorious to say, I feel it all the way to my core. Life can turn around, and one day you'll wake up and realize that you don't give a crap about solving the world's problems anymore, because it's all too far gone. It's not your fault. Just find your niche and reach some level of sustainability, and save the world later.
- yuhong 14y ago
  AFAIK, the software interface used with PATA (and SATA in legacy mode) dates backs to the WD1003 used in the original IBM PC/AT!
- kylebrown 14y ago
  Alan Kay's STEPS project is a non-mainstream paradigm you might find inspiring. Saw this pdf recently and it blew my mind, which happens much less often than it used to (like you, I'm becoming more prone to irritability and frustration). http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf
Chmouel 14y ago
I don't know Andre but I know Jeff and he's the most nicest kernel developer out there there is not many that are as much great listener as him
noonespecial 14y ago
Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life. This is advice for someone who had a bad day. This is not advice for someone who is depressed! These suggestions assume that the person has hope. Or even considers the possibility of ever having hope again. There's just no way I can tell someone who hasn't been on this train what it's like to ride it. It's like being dead in a way. Would you tell a dead man to get out and enjoy the grass? It's a bit like that.
- mistermann 14y ago
  You sound like someone personally familiar with depression? If so, may I ask a question? I imagine it is true that people who are depressed may have a mental blockade to self-diagnose and independently coming to the conclusion that they may be suffering from depression. But is it also true that people who are depressed may also (always, sometimes) be resistant to the suggestion from others that they may be suffering from depression? ie: Is it common that depression may be accompanied by a self-defense mechanism whereby the afflicted may be highly resistant to the suggestion or any discussion of the topic? Secondarily....if you are worried about someone, what would be a good approach? Talk to them on one of their "up" days, hoping that they may be thinking more clearly than usual?
  - sid6376 14y ago
    >> But is it also true that people who are depressed may also (always, sometimes) be resistant to the suggestion from others that they may be suffering from depression? I had a girlfriend once, who suffered from bipolar disorder. The problem is the feelings that you have while having a depressive episode are real problems to you, in the sense that they affect you very deeply at that point. When someone suggests to that person that maybe you are just depressed, it often seems to them that you are trying to ignoring the issue and instead trying to shift the blame on them. This infuriates them further and they either lash out against you or shut up. After screwing up a couple of times,every time I realized she was possibly having an episode I tried to put it very gently to her and only after talking about whatever is bothering her. I will also suggest going through this link to understand how people having a depressive episode feel(Even though the article is about lupus). http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/ http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christ...
olliesaunders 14y ago
Perhaps it is the nature of intelligence itself, or just the nature of computer science, but our profession seems to have a higher than average rate of bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses. Citation needed.
bschlinker 14y ago
I had the opportunity to meet Andre last summer while interning at Cisco. I had no idea who he was at first, until I looked him up on LinkedIn and "googled" his name. Towards the end of my internship, I was there until 10 PM some days working on code. Andre would see my cube lights on and come over to talk to me. Considering how I was just working all alone when there that late, I really appreciated the brief talks, as they provided me when an opportunity to think about something other then the problems within my code for a few moments. He would often share a few technical tips or an interesting story with me during our conversations. Although I didn't work with him much, it's disappointing to hear of his death. It seems like most of the comments in here (on HN) are regarding mental illness -- something which I never observed during the brief period of time that I knew him. Regardless of his reason for taking his life, I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet him and thank him for those brief conversations.

233 points by asto 14y ago

That's a sad story, and one that's too common in our industry. Mental health issues in software are sadly under-discussed. If you feel like making a difference I'd recommend donating to the Brain & Behavior Research Foundation. They fund studies into mental health disorders, an area of science that is still only vaguely understood. http://bbrfoundation.org/ http://bbrfoundation.org/

tsahyt 14y ago
They're probably not just under-discussed in software but in any industry, because they're under-discussed in society as a whole. I don't know about the US but I believe mentally ill people often refuse to seek help even after they recognized their condition simply because they realize they're "not normal", afraid to be put in the drawer labeled with "crazy guys". I think though that mental illnesses are a lot more common than we realize, and to some degree society is actually breeding them. It's a very complex topic though, so take that as an opinion, not as facts or anything.
- rhizome 14y ago
  I think it makes more sense as just another means by which business consumes workers. I know that sounds all profound and over-generalized crypto-Marxist, but if you look back upon history I think you'll see a consumption metaphor where business is basically treating workers as fungible, resisting healthcare benefits and other quality-of-life exchanges. Margins are to be applied to productivity, and the underling's health is not necessarily a primary concern where they can be replaced.

Udo 14y ago

It's hard to disagree with the general sentiment, but trading a life for a computing project is not really what happened here. Software development does not cause mental illness. In some cases, stressful jobs contribute to a person's mental degradation - but it's not like there was ever an option of trading in this guys passion for technology in exchange for a healthy brain.

cynicalkane 14y ago
That's a false dichotomy. The author of the article is suggesting you can trade obsession with technology for a healthier brain, and that this trade may have cost a life in this instance. Also, passion need not be obsession.
flexd 14y ago
I feel the real message of the article/letter is to take better care of yourself. No project is worth ending up in a situation where you feel life is not worth living, and while software and other computer things are cool and for most of us probably both work and a hobby, it's important to take a break from things. I know I would go absolutely crazy if I could not go outside to do things like ride a mountain bike, eat some ice cream or simply just not sit in front of a monitor every day. If you are feeling stressed, take a break. :) Edit: I know it can be hard, and I know people who suffer from depressions can seem perfectly fine. A girl I went to school with recently killed herself, much to my surprise, as through my very limited contact with her these past years she seemed very happy in a relationship and about to finish school. The next thing I know she had ended her life. Depression is not something to be taken lightly. I wish I had known, and I wish there was something I could have done or said.
marketer 14y ago
Programming all day isn't what our bodies are genetically designed to do. Programming involves countless hours of ruminative thoughts, and limiting human contact, and stress, all of which are ingredients for mental illness.
dspillett 14y ago
> Software development does not cause mental illness. Correct, no job/task does. But burnout can, and any task/job/what-ever can cause that if you let yourself get into an unhealthy cycle while performing it. Development seems to be a task that is more prone to this though, I think because with many other tasks (that are more physical) other parts of your body tend to give out first and you have to take a break (if only to sleep or (eventually) pass out if you don't sleep voluntarily) before the point where your brain jumps track.
14y ago

paulrademacher 14y ago

And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression. > There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life. Every point except for Seek Help is just "cheer up, pal" bunk.

spaghetti 14y ago
Getting help is goal number one. However leading a more balanced life helps tremendously with preventing and maintaining some mental issues associated with thousands of hours of intellectually intense work. I feel strongly the above suggestions of spending more time outdoors, meeting new people etc are much more than "just cheer up" advice.
- trafficlight 14y ago
  When you're in deep depression you literally can't make yourself do anything. You may logically and reasonably know that you should go outside but you can't force yourself to actually open the door.
- derefr 14y ago
  The problem with that kind of advice is that doing those things (spending time outdoors, meeting new people) require willpower, and being depressed, or anxious, or in a number of other states of mind, saps your willpower, and therefore your ability to execute on any of these suggestions. Practical suggestions are the kind of things a therapist will recommend when you do seek help: cognitive behavioral therapy, or pharmacological solutions. They're practical because talking to someone on a set schedule every week, or taking a pill on a set schedule every day, requires much less willpower than the things people usually suggest, but has effects which increase your willpower, and thus your capacity for attempting those other things.
raverbashing 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

hobin 14y ago

I was going to respond to a few of the comments here, but then I realized I was going to say pretty much the same to all of them, so here goes: I've got clinical depression. What this means is that there is something fundamentally wrong in my brain that causes me to be depressed. There is no direct environmental cause that makes me depressed. Now, here's what many people get wrong about severe depression: Severe depression does NOT mean that exercise, a healthy diet and getting a social life won't help at all. Rather, depression completely drains your motivation to do any of those things. Which in turn make you more depressed. Which makes you even less likely to do any of them. And so on and so forth. It's 'positive' feedback, but it starts with a neurological problem. This is why all the 'cheer up'-sort of advice doesn't help people who're depressed, and why it tends to only make them more miserable. Of course, this is only my experience. I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who are depressed for reasons found in their environment, and then get stuck in the same loop. But it would be ridiculous to presume that I'm unique in this regard.

singular 14y ago
I also have clinical depression, and this has also been my experience. Something which also adds to the problems is that people so often condescend - 'you won't feel better unless you do X, Y or Z' and actually essentially accuse you of bringing it on yourself. And a lot of the problem is the guilt you feel about everything, so it's the worst possible thing you can do for a depressed person. I find having some project that gives you an output is important, to contradict the standard 'oh don't spend so much time on a computer project' points. The alternative a lot of the time for me is spending all day in bed because I feel so low, so having an outlet matters. But of course you then find it hard to balance that. Having said that, all the standard healthy advice is important too. It's just really important to differentiate between mild and severe depression - it's like the difference between having the flu and people recommending painkillers and having a serious chronic disease. The advice is good for mild depression but really not going to touch anything for the severe variety. For people who are lucky enough not to suffer from severe depression - don't presume to know what it's like because you've felt a little bit low before. /rant
- 14y ago

combataircraft 14y ago

On the other words: All this software development shits are NOT for EARTH. They are for the price competition of capitalist system and can only impact prices in capitalist cities, nothing more than this. Don't put so much meaning and don't think you're becoming a better person when you commit to a repository.

slurgfest 14y ago
That isn't true. Software is just a kind of tool. Some software is fart apps, some is enterprise CRM but a lot is really useful in tangible ways that have nothing directly to do with capitalism. I also disagree with the implication that there is something inherently unworthy with selling things on the free market. This is the way most people on earth get most of the things they need and in many cases it is the most efficient rationing mechanism practicable. Beyond all this, it's good to do things you love. If someone really enjoys the activity then it is none of my business to say they shouldn't because it is at worst quite harmless.
- combataircraft 14y ago
  study economics, read history, learn the truth my friend.

catastrophe 14y ago

I haven't been formally diagnosed with bipolar, but I sure as heck have many of the symptoms, including feeling elation and depression at the same time. I also have chronic depression. What does that mean? Nothing, except I completely see myself in Andre's description. What am I doing about it? Exercising, reading affirmations, trying to watch the diet (tough when broke) etc, etc. But I read Andre's story and it makes me very sad.

Monotoko 14y ago

RIP Andre. This makes me think about the people I interact with every day, I have friends who won't accept they even have a problem and believe everything is fine. They seem unble to see it, how do you convince someone like that to go to a therapist?

steve8918 14y ago

I had a good friend from high school who was brilliant. We were academic rivals, but he definitely outworked everyone in the entire school. He got into Duke and graduated with a double major in engineering and economics. He got his law degree, and then his Master's in Law, and passed the bar exam in New York and I think CA. He was working in patent law in NYC for a few years, and then abruptly quit and moved back home. He said he had some ideas on businesses, and it seemed rational. He started venturing into religion, not for the sake of religion, but to explore the concept of morality. He didn't have a Jewish background, but he became very interested in Judaism because of it's views on morality, and I even bought a book on the Talmud at his insistence, so that we could talk about it. We would have pretty elaborate discussions on morality, etc, over email. He was engaged to get married to a lovely girl, and things looked fine. Then, just before they got married, they abruptly cancelled their wedding. I emailed him, and I asked him "How are things going? Enquiring minds want to know!" His only response was "Who are these enquiring minds that you are asking on behalf of?" We exchanged a few emails after that, he accused me of being immoral, and then I never heard from him again. I contacted his fiancee, and apparently he was exhibiting signs of paranoid schizophrenia. He had become increasingly paranoid over the last few years, and become more and more disassociated with reality. After that, he basically disappeared. He was always a bit paranoid about leaving his mark on the Internet, and had multiple fake email addresses, so trying to track him down was basically impossible. Last year, after many years of no contact, I got a phone call from him, presumably from a number that wasn't his, because he had recently realized that in one of his discussions on his business over 10 years ago, he may have gotten me to agree to terms that would have been personally unfavorable, and he wanted to release me from all obligations from this agreement. I didn't know what he was talking about, but we never did anything more than talk about things, and his "businesses" never amounted to anything except talking. But I agreed to be absolved from those obligations. Then asked how things were with him, and he was extremely vagued, and then hung up on me. It's very sad, because he was very brilliant, but it's clear he is mentally ill. And there's nothing I can do about it. He has no siblings, and both his parents are dead, so there's no one I can even contact. It sounds similar to the case of Garzik in that I don't know if the concept of "take care of yourself" is relevant. He probably didn't realize he was mentally ill, if what the original emailer said was true about him being paranoid. It probably would have been something the family would need to pursue, but getting someone evaluated, etc, is hard, and as the emailer said, it would only increase the negative feedback loop for Garzik, since he would suspect everyone was out to get him, so it's a really tough problem to solve.

zackmorris 14y ago

This story hits close to home for me. As one of the countless others like me on Hacker News who started out their educations and careers with so much promise, all I feel anymore is this tremendous sense of failure and missed opportunity. These days I think of programming the way I think of working out: intense bursts of focus on creativity for maybe 2-4 hours if I'm lucky, and then hours to days of melancholy because the tools and methodologies I'm using are all garbage. Examples of mainstream trash: ios, objective-c, flash, php, c++, 802.11, usb, xml, html5, mpeg, mp3, dram caches, opengl, just on and on and on. Literally every tool I use on a daily basis, every file format, every communication protocol, everything, all fatally flawed in some way. My life has been an almost complete waste. I don't know much about IDE/ATA but it must be quite a garbage dump to traverse. Turning that into something clean like a socket/file reference is remarkable. Just think of all the things that don't work on hard drives: how they fail to write the last bit of data in a power failure or maintain directory consistency, how they were so far behind on caching and hybrid flash/platter drives, just on and on, a tower of babel of remarkably cheap but inadequate hardware. Dealing with that, and the layers of politics that perpetuate such monstrosities would be enough to drive a person mad. Thank god I'm not depressed though. I was severely out of it from 2000-2010 for a lot of obvious reasons but I finally let everything go and have never been happier. I. Am. Not. Depressed. It's glorious to say, I feel it all the way to my core. Life can turn around, and one day you'll wake up and realize that you don't give a crap about solving the world's problems anymore, because it's all too far gone. It's not your fault. Just find your niche and reach some level of sustainability, and save the world later.

yuhong 14y ago
AFAIK, the software interface used with PATA (and SATA in legacy mode) dates backs to the WD1003 used in the original IBM PC/AT!
kylebrown 14y ago
Alan Kay's STEPS project is a non-mainstream paradigm you might find inspiring. Saw this pdf recently and it blew my mind, which happens much less often than it used to (like you, I'm becoming more prone to irritability and frustration). http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2011004_steps11.pdf

Chmouel 14y ago

I don't know Andre but I know Jeff and he's the most nicest kernel developer out there there is not many that are as much great listener as him

noonespecial 14y ago

Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life. This is advice for someone who had a bad day. This is not advice for someone who is depressed! These suggestions assume that the person has hope. Or even considers the possibility of ever having hope again. There's just no way I can tell someone who hasn't been on this train what it's like to ride it. It's like being dead in a way. Would you tell a dead man to get out and enjoy the grass? It's a bit like that.

mistermann 14y ago
You sound like someone personally familiar with depression? If so, may I ask a question? I imagine it is true that people who are depressed may have a mental blockade to self-diagnose and independently coming to the conclusion that they may be suffering from depression. But is it also true that people who are depressed may also (always, sometimes) be resistant to the suggestion from others that they may be suffering from depression? ie: Is it common that depression may be accompanied by a self-defense mechanism whereby the afflicted may be highly resistant to the suggestion or any discussion of the topic? Secondarily....if you are worried about someone, what would be a good approach? Talk to them on one of their "up" days, hoping that they may be thinking more clearly than usual?
- sid6376 14y ago
  >> But is it also true that people who are depressed may also (always, sometimes) be resistant to the suggestion from others that they may be suffering from depression? I had a girlfriend once, who suffered from bipolar disorder. The problem is the feelings that you have while having a depressive episode are real problems to you, in the sense that they affect you very deeply at that point. When someone suggests to that person that maybe you are just depressed, it often seems to them that you are trying to ignoring the issue and instead trying to shift the blame on them. This infuriates them further and they either lash out against you or shut up. After screwing up a couple of times,every time I realized she was possibly having an episode I tried to put it very gently to her and only after talking about whatever is bothering her. I will also suggest going through this link to understand how people having a depressive episode feel(Even though the article is about lupus). http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/ http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christ...

olliesaunders 14y ago

Perhaps it is the nature of intelligence itself, or just the nature of computer science, but our profession seems to have a higher than average rate of bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses. Citation needed.

bschlinker 14y ago

I had the opportunity to meet Andre last summer while interning at Cisco. I had no idea who he was at first, until I looked him up on LinkedIn and "googled" his name. Towards the end of my internship, I was there until 10 PM some days working on code. Andre would see my cube lights on and come over to talk to me. Considering how I was just working all alone when there that late, I really appreciated the brief talks, as they provided me when an opportunity to think about something other then the problems within my code for a few moments. He would often share a few technical tips or an interesting story with me during our conversations. Although I didn't work with him much, it's disappointing to hear of his death. It seems like most of the comments in here (on HN) are regarding mental illness -- something which I never observed during the brief period of time that I knew him. Regardless of his reason for taking his life, I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet him and thank him for those brief conversations.