5 ms·

The ideal amount of JavaScript is zero.

IshKebab 2y ago
I disagree. The gov.uk website completely eschews JavaScript at some usability cost, in particular form validation is delayed until way later than it would be if they added just a little JavaScript. It can be quite annoying.
- DoingIsLearning 2y ago
  > The gov.uk website completely eschews JavaScript at some usability cost I would imagine this was mostly driven by accessibility requirements more so than some ideological rigidity.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    a little bit of the right kind of JavaScript helps accessibility, so it's clearly not
  - biofox 2y ago
    Unfortunately, some people view accessibility as an ideology.
    - tzmudzin 2y ago
      It’s easy to dismiss the genuine needs of someone else if one’s not impacted though. Ideology or not, exclusion does not help.
    - tweetle_beetle 2y ago
      Perhaps, but, taking the example provided, Gov.uk deals with population scale products funded by taxpayers and which may be exclusively digital. Accessibility as an ideology makes sense in this context, and, I would argue, is morally correct.
rhubarbtree 2y ago
Why?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mediumsmart 2y ago
I agree and with small single page sites doable but when I need to put a navigation (plus language versions etc) of the site into a mobile layout I have to do the js toggle, or do I?
- account42 2y ago
  Why would you need JS for any of that?
  - mediumsmart 2y ago
    how else can I have a fullscreen overlay navigation on a phone from an accessible toggle button? almost forgot to answer the question: because I don't know any better
    - Lammy 2y ago
      Actual answer: like this! https://codepen.io/Sfate/pen/kGbLzK https://codepen.io/Sfate/pen/kGbLzK
      - mediumsmart 2y ago
        yep that works thank you - so to get the fullscreen overlay (since we only want it on the phones) a media query - maybe it should be the one gridcell navpage. But maybe the links should be listed for the robots ... if mobile is default/first there would be only one link - yeah maybe this is good.
    - endemic 2y ago
      You can do a lot with CSS these days: https://css-tricks.com/the-checkbox-hack/ https://css-tricks.com/the-checkbox-hack/
    - seanwilson 2y ago
      One (unusual) approach I like because of the simplicity is to put all your navigation links in your footer, and the hamburger/menu button in the header is just an anchor link that scrolls down to your footer. Unfortunately, accessible HTML solutions for well established UI patterns like menus and tooltips are still far too difficult to get right (anything that requires JavaScript usually).
throw_m239339 2y ago
I agree, but HTML widgets are not sophisticated enough not to require some amount of scripting for interactivity in many cases.
ozim 2y ago
It is for documents but we have web apps that are not documents.

I disagree. The gov.uk website completely eschews JavaScript at some usability cost, in particular form validation is delayed until way later than it would be if they added just a little JavaScript. It can be quite annoying.

DoingIsLearning 2y ago
> The gov.uk website completely eschews JavaScript at some usability cost I would imagine this was mostly driven by accessibility requirements more so than some ideological rigidity.
- fragmede 2y ago
  a little bit of the right kind of JavaScript helps accessibility, so it's clearly not
- biofox 2y ago
  Unfortunately, some people view accessibility as an ideology.
  - tzmudzin 2y ago
    It’s easy to dismiss the genuine needs of someone else if one’s not impacted though. Ideology or not, exclusion does not help.
  - tweetle_beetle 2y ago
    Perhaps, but, taking the example provided, Gov.uk deals with population scale products funded by taxpayers and which may be exclusively digital. Accessibility as an ideology makes sense in this context, and, I would argue, is morally correct.

rhubarbtree 2y ago

Why?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mediumsmart 2y ago

I agree and with small single page sites doable but when I need to put a navigation (plus language versions etc) of the site into a mobile layout I have to do the js toggle, or do I?

account42 2y ago
Why would you need JS for any of that?
- mediumsmart 2y ago
  how else can I have a fullscreen overlay navigation on a phone from an accessible toggle button? almost forgot to answer the question: because I don't know any better
  - Lammy 2y ago
    Actual answer: like this! https://codepen.io/Sfate/pen/kGbLzK https://codepen.io/Sfate/pen/kGbLzK
    - mediumsmart 2y ago
      yep that works thank you - so to get the fullscreen overlay (since we only want it on the phones) a media query - maybe it should be the one gridcell navpage. But maybe the links should be listed for the robots ... if mobile is default/first there would be only one link - yeah maybe this is good.
  - endemic 2y ago
    You can do a lot with CSS these days: https://css-tricks.com/the-checkbox-hack/ https://css-tricks.com/the-checkbox-hack/
  - seanwilson 2y ago
    One (unusual) approach I like because of the simplicity is to put all your navigation links in your footer, and the hamburger/menu button in the header is just an anchor link that scrolls down to your footer. Unfortunately, accessible HTML solutions for well established UI patterns like menus and tooltips are still far too difficult to get right (anything that requires JavaScript usually).

throw_m239339 2y ago

I agree, but HTML widgets are not sophisticated enough not to require some amount of scripting for interactivity in many cases.

ozim 2y ago

It is for documents but we have web apps that are not documents.