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》 So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. I do not

》 So there's a very real chance at this deal offering something closer to ~1 month of pay before it suddenly gets dropped due to budget negotiations. I do not see your arguments US has worker protections, even if US government goes bancrupt, it has to pay its obligations. And if government refuses to pay, no worker, even if employed, is getting anything!

cyanydeez 2y ago
worker protections exist in a world of laws. This is not the world being offered to them, so good luck doing anything but throwing money at lawyers. everyone who thinks laws are just something you can invoke like magic should go sit down.
alasdair_ 2y ago
If congress doesn't allocate the money, they won't be paid, even if they have a contract that says they will. Imagine Trump decided to offer a worker a trillion dollars. He writes a contract with the worker. It is irrelevant - the worker won't be paid because the executive branch is not allowed to spend money that hasn't been authorized by congress.
- jfkrrorj 2y ago
  [flagged]
scottLobster 2y ago
And you think that an offer accepted by sending an email with "Resign" in the subject line is subject to these protections? You think DOGE is even authorized to make said offers? Why, because Elon and Trump said so? Also your last line is just bizarre. The US government can very much selectively pay some parties but not others during a shutdown. That's kind of the definition of a shutdown.... Plus this administration is already brazenly breaking laws. You think they won't violate worker protection laws? Sure, maybe the courts sort it out in a year or two, small comfort to the people who were relying on that income to pay their rent in the meantime.
- ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
  The requirements for making a contract are minimal. If your friend says "I bet you a hundred dollars that you can't run over there and back in less than a minute" and you say nothing in response but start running, you've entered into a binding contract. Your other points still stand, but an email that makes an offer and makes it clear that you accept by responding "Resign" and a response to that email that says "Resign" is definitely sufficient to be subject to contract law.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Your example of a binding contract isn’t a binding contract since there’s no consideration to the person who made the bet.
    - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
      I think I agree, on reflection, that it is not a binding contract. But (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it's a matter of consideration- in a wager, each party stands to gain the agreed upon amount depending on the outcome, which should qualify for that criteria AFAICT. I think the informality of a between-friends bet and gambling laws are what do the example in.
      - mikeyouse 2y ago
        Yeah that clarification helps and I agree there - there's a bunch of exceptions of 'joking bets' etc. I first read the offer as "I'll give you $100 if you can run there and back in under a minute" rather than each party being able to win the $100 which would indeed satisfy the consideration requirement.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Binding on illegal contracts is tricky. If I offer X for murder, and you do the murder and I don't pay you; you can't seek recompense in the courts. If the government's offer is illegal, those who accepted it and performed their part of the contract may not be able to force the government to perform its part.
Tadpole9181 2y ago
No, they don't. Contracts are enforced by the threat of the state's monopoly on violence. If the US goes bunk, who exactly are you going to to get your money? The courts are bunk too. Even if the government exists, if Trump and Musk hold the payment system and you somehow get a judge to tell them to pay, they can just say no. Then what? Are you going to go Rambo? They hold a monopoly on violence and imprisonment. This is why government's need to be set up with so many layers of indirect power and checks against direct power. this is why the military (should) have no role in governance.

cyanydeez 2y ago

worker protections exist in a world of laws. This is not the world being offered to them, so good luck doing anything but throwing money at lawyers. everyone who thinks laws are just something you can invoke like magic should go sit down.

alasdair_ 2y ago

If congress doesn't allocate the money, they won't be paid, even if they have a contract that says they will. Imagine Trump decided to offer a worker a trillion dollars. He writes a contract with the worker. It is irrelevant - the worker won't be paid because the executive branch is not allowed to spend money that hasn't been authorized by congress.

jfkrrorj 2y ago
[flagged]

scottLobster 2y ago

And you think that an offer accepted by sending an email with "Resign" in the subject line is subject to these protections? You think DOGE is even authorized to make said offers? Why, because Elon and Trump said so? Also your last line is just bizarre. The US government can very much selectively pay some parties but not others during a shutdown. That's kind of the definition of a shutdown.... Plus this administration is already brazenly breaking laws. You think they won't violate worker protection laws? Sure, maybe the courts sort it out in a year or two, small comfort to the people who were relying on that income to pay their rent in the meantime.

ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
The requirements for making a contract are minimal. If your friend says "I bet you a hundred dollars that you can't run over there and back in less than a minute" and you say nothing in response but start running, you've entered into a binding contract. Your other points still stand, but an email that makes an offer and makes it clear that you accept by responding "Resign" and a response to that email that says "Resign" is definitely sufficient to be subject to contract law.
- mikeyouse 2y ago
  Your example of a binding contract isn’t a binding contract since there’s no consideration to the person who made the bet.
  - ToValueFunfetti 2y ago
    I think I agree, on reflection, that it is not a binding contract. But (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't think it's a matter of consideration- in a wager, each party stands to gain the agreed upon amount depending on the outcome, which should qualify for that criteria AFAICT. I think the informality of a between-friends bet and gambling laws are what do the example in.
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Yeah that clarification helps and I agree there - there's a bunch of exceptions of 'joking bets' etc. I first read the offer as "I'll give you $100 if you can run there and back in under a minute" rather than each party being able to win the $100 which would indeed satisfy the consideration requirement.
- toast0 2y ago
  Binding on illegal contracts is tricky. If I offer X for murder, and you do the murder and I don't pay you; you can't seek recompense in the courts. If the government's offer is illegal, those who accepted it and performed their part of the contract may not be able to force the government to perform its part.

Tadpole9181 2y ago

No, they don't. Contracts are enforced by the threat of the state's monopoly on violence. If the US goes bunk, who exactly are you going to to get your money? The courts are bunk too. Even if the government exists, if Trump and Musk hold the payment system and you somehow get a judge to tell them to pay, they can just say no. Then what? Are you going to go Rambo? They hold a monopoly on violence and imprisonment. This is why government's need to be set up with so many layers of indirect power and checks against direct power. this is why the military (should) have no role in governance.