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> His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. Or are his companies successful despite that? The impression I get is that his direct

> His manage-by-trolling technique is demonstrably effective in industry. Or are his companies successful despite that? The impression I get is that his direct reports are exceptionally good managers and shield the companies from his dumbest moves. Except at Twitter--that's lost, what, 75% of its value? (still works as a political platform for him though)

Vilian 2y ago
Considering that twitter never profited since he took over, nah
- ganoushoreilly 2y ago
  "Twitter" wasn't profitable when he bought it so I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.
pizlonator 2y ago
That’s exactly what I mean by manage by trolling. He forces his directs to be good by trolling them with idiotic ideas. I don’t condone manage by trolling; it’s not how I want to manage or be managed. But it seems to have worked out for his industrial complex.
- jhloa2 2y ago
  So he fosters competence with his incompetence? Seems like it would work just as well without him except for marketing. I'm impressed with Tesla and SpaceX as a whole, but from what I've heard, he hasn't been heavily involved with day to day decisions for more than a decade. From my perspective, his role is to be a hype man that consistently over promises and under delivers.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    Musk specializes at succeeding in fields where nobody else is seriously trying. He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition. He's good at identifying ideas whose time has come, I'll give him that much credit. Ransacking the US Treasury wasn't on the radar, though, as far as I could see.
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      "He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition." https://waymo.com/blog/2024/03/scaling-waymo-one-safely-across-four-cities-this-year/ https://waymo.com/blog/2024/03/scaling-waymo-one-safely-acro... Note the date. Tesla still doesn't have a taxi.
      - CamperBob2 2y ago
        Waymo is doing good work but it's still very much a science-fair project, just another side hobby of Larry and Sergey. Self-driving taxis will be a "market" someday, but not yet, and when they are, there is no reason to think Musk will be a force to be reckoned with. (Well, no reason other than the regulatory capture that he's no doubt putting into place now, that is.)
        fragmede 2y ago
        https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/year-in-review-2024 https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/year-in-review-2024 from their blog that GP linked to, which says they gave 4 million rides in 2024, which seems like more than a "science faire side project", whatever that's supposed to mean.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        It means it's not the least bit responsive to my assertion that Musk has never faced any serious market competition.
        ModernMech 2y ago
        How so? I can give Waymo money and they send a driverless taxi to pick me up in SF. That's a market. Can't do the same for Tesla despite Musk saying they'd have robotaxis for years now, they're so far behind they're not even an option. How do you reconcile that with what you're saying here?

Vilian 2y ago

Considering that twitter never profited since he took over, nah

ganoushoreilly 2y ago
"Twitter" wasn't profitable when he bought it so I'm not sure this is a fair comparison.

pizlonator 2y ago

That’s exactly what I mean by manage by trolling. He forces his directs to be good by trolling them with idiotic ideas. I don’t condone manage by trolling; it’s not how I want to manage or be managed. But it seems to have worked out for his industrial complex.

jhloa2 2y ago
So he fosters competence with his incompetence? Seems like it would work just as well without him except for marketing. I'm impressed with Tesla and SpaceX as a whole, but from what I've heard, he hasn't been heavily involved with day to day decisions for more than a decade. From my perspective, his role is to be a hype man that consistently over promises and under delivers.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  Musk specializes at succeeding in fields where nobody else is seriously trying. He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition. He's good at identifying ideas whose time has come, I'll give him that much credit. Ransacking the US Treasury wasn't on the radar, though, as far as I could see.
  - ModernMech 2y ago
    "He's never actually faced good old-fashioned market competition." https://waymo.com/blog/2024/03/scaling-waymo-one-safely-across-four-cities-this-year/ https://waymo.com/blog/2024/03/scaling-waymo-one-safely-acro... Note the date. Tesla still doesn't have a taxi.
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Waymo is doing good work but it's still very much a science-fair project, just another side hobby of Larry and Sergey. Self-driving taxis will be a "market" someday, but not yet, and when they are, there is no reason to think Musk will be a force to be reckoned with. (Well, no reason other than the regulatory capture that he's no doubt putting into place now, that is.)
      - fragmede 2y ago
        https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/year-in-review-2024 https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/year-in-review-2024 from their blog that GP linked to, which says they gave 4 million rides in 2024, which seems like more than a "science faire side project", whatever that's supposed to mean.
        CamperBob2 2y ago
        It means it's not the least bit responsive to my assertion that Musk has never faced any serious market competition.
        ModernMech 2y ago
        How so? I can give Waymo money and they send a driverless taxi to pick me up in SF. That's a market. Can't do the same for Tesla despite Musk saying they'd have robotaxis for years now, they're so far behind they're not even an option. How do you reconcile that with what you're saying here?