10 ms·

The console wars are over and nobody won

43 points by raytopia 2y ago

paulryanrogers 2y ago
ATI/AMD made out pretty well across many generations.
- wbl 2y ago
  Not really. It's only the Xbox and Xbox One, PS4/5 where AMD CPU got used. ATI has some more design wins. Earlier generations were somewhat exotic in comparison to PC.
  - andrekandre 2y ago
    > It's only the Xbox and Xbox One, PS4/5 where AMD CPU got used. i think maybe forgetting about gpus? gamecube → wii → wiiu = amd/ati gpu xbox 360 (amd/ati gpu) → one → series = amd gpu/cpu ps4 → ps5 = amd gpu/cpu
- tengbretson 2y ago
  I suppose you could argue it may have helped keep the boat afloat before they launched Zen, but as far as I know the margins on their game console chips are terrible.
  - toast0 2y ago
    The margins are terrible, but they make it up in volume. :P Seriously though, having a volume product that covers its costs keeps the business running; even if it doesn't make a lot of margin, it enables producing products that do have reasonable margins. Zen, especially since Zen 2, can probably pay for itself now, but it's still nice to have two high volume customers.
MarkusWandel 2y ago
Not a gamer, but isn't that basically that the Steam Deck won, by merging the "portable", "game console" and "gaming PC" categories into one device?
- falcor84 2y ago
  Good point, but arguably it's that Steam (rather than Steam Deck) won, as (with the relatively low hardware margins) they probably prefer that it be others like Asus and Lenovo selling steam handhelds.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  SteamDeck "success" is still out there to validate. Doesn't have the sales of any Nintendo handheld that has earned its place on history books, and remains to be seen for how long Microsoft will tolerate Proton as Windows/DirectX translation layer.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    What do you reckon Microsoft can do about Proton?
  - qwertycrackers 2y ago
    I think the window for Microsoft to squash Proton (if that was ever practical) has already passed. Valve will be able to stand up to any litigious bullying and they have financial incentive to do so. And defeating it from the technical side with a new interface would require buy-in from developers, which Microsoft has consistently been unable to obtain.
- numpad0 2y ago
  I don't think it has meaningful volume to be considered a winner. Mental to physical share ratio is low, similar to Boston Dynamics in robotics, RISC-V in processors, etc.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  Apparently there aren’t any sales figures but most estimates puts it at 1% of the Nintendo Switch sales.
- jhbadger 2y ago
retrac98 2y ago
Games nowadays have a real accessibility issue. Every new game feels like I need to spend hours learning how it works before I get to having fun, when as a working parent I might only have 30 minutes here or there where I’m able to play. When I get back to a game after a couple of weeks off, I can’t remember what I was doing, or what the controls are. It’s just not fun. Furthermore, every time I turn my console on, everything needs an update in order to be played. So there’s a 15-20 minute wait to get to any sort of entertainment. Contrast this to the OG Xbox/PS2 era - I’d turn the console on and be having fun within a minute or two in a game that was easy to understand. I don’t think this was due to a lack of depth in the games either. They generally just seemed to have an “easy to learn, hard to master” aspect to them that doesn’t feel present today. Obviously this is a huge generalisation. But the cumulative effect is that it’s switched me off gaming completely. Unless something is considered a true masterpiece, I won’t even bother. My Xbox is packed away for now. I expect the next time I’ll turn it on will be for GTA 6.
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  While I do get the occasional must update from my switch, 9 out of 10 it’ll let me play without downloading the update. Most Nintendo games are really easy to jump in and out of and are really fun to play.
- choobacker 2y ago
  > as a working parent I might only have 30 minutes here or there where I’m able to play. When I get back to a game after a couple of weeks off, I can’t remember what I was doing, or what the controls are. It’s just not fun. +1, I fall into this category. It's tough. But is it a problem for the gaming industry? How many sales can they expect from the time poor? I manage to still play, by choosing conceptually simple games (puzzle, platformer, sports, GTA, some FPS), and playing on the Steam Deck. Portability + instant resume works well for this.
- Zanfa 2y ago
  Call of Duty is the worst with this. After purchasing Modern Warfare, waiting for it to download 60GB, all you get is a fancy menu where the game you purchased is hidden away somewhere below the fold and it tries to upsell other CoDs instead. When you eventually figure out how to navigate the menu and find the game, you can't play it, because apparently, the 60GB download didn't include any of the game. That's another 50GB download. Oh and turns out, that also doesn't actually include the game mode you were interested in. That's another 25GB.
musicale 2y ago
"Free to play" games with slot machine mechanics and intrusive monetization schemes seem to have won.
mrbigbob 2y ago
Ive been a pc gamer for a little of 2 decades and this is one of the best times to be a PC gamer. Production costs of video games have ballooned so much that both Microsoft and now even Sonys exclusive are coming to the PC because they simply cannot sustain games that are exclusive to just 1 console. Granted Microsoft has not been hostile to PC gaming for a while now but i never thought id see the day Sony would port some of their exclusives onto the PC

43 points by raytopia 2y ago

paulryanrogers 2y ago

ATI/AMD made out pretty well across many generations.

wbl 2y ago
Not really. It's only the Xbox and Xbox One, PS4/5 where AMD CPU got used. ATI has some more design wins. Earlier generations were somewhat exotic in comparison to PC.
- andrekandre 2y ago
  > It's only the Xbox and Xbox One, PS4/5 where AMD CPU got used. i think maybe forgetting about gpus? gamecube → wii → wiiu = amd/ati gpu xbox 360 (amd/ati gpu) → one → series = amd gpu/cpu ps4 → ps5 = amd gpu/cpu
tengbretson 2y ago
I suppose you could argue it may have helped keep the boat afloat before they launched Zen, but as far as I know the margins on their game console chips are terrible.
- toast0 2y ago
  The margins are terrible, but they make it up in volume. :P Seriously though, having a volume product that covers its costs keeps the business running; even if it doesn't make a lot of margin, it enables producing products that do have reasonable margins. Zen, especially since Zen 2, can probably pay for itself now, but it's still nice to have two high volume customers.

MarkusWandel 2y ago

Not a gamer, but isn't that basically that the Steam Deck won, by merging the "portable", "game console" and "gaming PC" categories into one device?

falcor84 2y ago
Good point, but arguably it's that Steam (rather than Steam Deck) won, as (with the relatively low hardware margins) they probably prefer that it be others like Asus and Lenovo selling steam handhelds.
pjmlp 2y ago
SteamDeck "success" is still out there to validate. Doesn't have the sales of any Nintendo handheld that has earned its place on history books, and remains to be seen for how long Microsoft will tolerate Proton as Windows/DirectX translation layer.
- cassianoleal 2y ago
  What do you reckon Microsoft can do about Proton?
- qwertycrackers 2y ago
  I think the window for Microsoft to squash Proton (if that was ever practical) has already passed. Valve will be able to stand up to any litigious bullying and they have financial incentive to do so. And defeating it from the technical side with a new interface would require buy-in from developers, which Microsoft has consistently been unable to obtain.
numpad0 2y ago
I don't think it has meaningful volume to be considered a winner. Mental to physical share ratio is low, similar to Boston Dynamics in robotics, RISC-V in processors, etc.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wodenokoto 2y ago
Apparently there aren’t any sales figures but most estimates puts it at 1% of the Nintendo Switch sales.
jhbadger 2y ago

retrac98 2y ago

Games nowadays have a real accessibility issue. Every new game feels like I need to spend hours learning how it works before I get to having fun, when as a working parent I might only have 30 minutes here or there where I’m able to play. When I get back to a game after a couple of weeks off, I can’t remember what I was doing, or what the controls are. It’s just not fun. Furthermore, every time I turn my console on, everything needs an update in order to be played. So there’s a 15-20 minute wait to get to any sort of entertainment. Contrast this to the OG Xbox/PS2 era - I’d turn the console on and be having fun within a minute or two in a game that was easy to understand. I don’t think this was due to a lack of depth in the games either. They generally just seemed to have an “easy to learn, hard to master” aspect to them that doesn’t feel present today. Obviously this is a huge generalisation. But the cumulative effect is that it’s switched me off gaming completely. Unless something is considered a true masterpiece, I won’t even bother. My Xbox is packed away for now. I expect the next time I’ll turn it on will be for GTA 6.

wodenokoto 2y ago
While I do get the occasional must update from my switch, 9 out of 10 it’ll let me play without downloading the update. Most Nintendo games are really easy to jump in and out of and are really fun to play.
choobacker 2y ago
> as a working parent I might only have 30 minutes here or there where I’m able to play. When I get back to a game after a couple of weeks off, I can’t remember what I was doing, or what the controls are. It’s just not fun. +1, I fall into this category. It's tough. But is it a problem for the gaming industry? How many sales can they expect from the time poor? I manage to still play, by choosing conceptually simple games (puzzle, platformer, sports, GTA, some FPS), and playing on the Steam Deck. Portability + instant resume works well for this.
Zanfa 2y ago
Call of Duty is the worst with this. After purchasing Modern Warfare, waiting for it to download 60GB, all you get is a fancy menu where the game you purchased is hidden away somewhere below the fold and it tries to upsell other CoDs instead. When you eventually figure out how to navigate the menu and find the game, you can't play it, because apparently, the 60GB download didn't include any of the game. That's another 50GB download. Oh and turns out, that also doesn't actually include the game mode you were interested in. That's another 25GB.

musicale 2y ago

"Free to play" games with slot machine mechanics and intrusive monetization schemes seem to have won.

mrbigbob 2y ago

Ive been a pc gamer for a little of 2 decades and this is one of the best times to be a PC gamer. Production costs of video games have ballooned so much that both Microsoft and now even Sonys exclusive are coming to the PC because they simply cannot sustain games that are exclusive to just 1 console. Granted Microsoft has not been hostile to PC gaming for a while now but i never thought id see the day Sony would port some of their exclusives onto the PC