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Dell does this but continues to outsource to India and China where communication is an epic problem that has never been solved. This is nothing short of a st

Dell does this but continues to outsource to India and China where communication is an epic problem that has never been solved. This is nothing short of a stealth layoff. If they were so interested in communicating they would hire all US and stop the outsourcing. This is utter bullsh*t and everyone knows it.

pjmlp 2y ago
They are not alone, this is the reality in all companies demanding RTO.
- rubicon33 2y ago
  I think the underlying problem here is that despite what the stock market would have you believe, sales are down, moral is down, and many industries are experiencing light to moderate headwinds. RTO is an (desperate) attempt to resuscitate businesses experiencing economic woes.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yes, I have heard that as well, because having people on the office is going to magically ramp up sales, as that is the missing factor why they aren't taking off. /s
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      You're misunderstanding what was said. It's about costs/income. RTO (probably) doesn't increase income - but people will (most likely) quit, reducing costs. Thus the ratio gets better.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        That for sure, note the sarcastic remark on my comment.
        ffsm8 2y ago
        Well, until you made that sarcastic statement, nobody in this thread insinuated that it would increase sales, hence my comment
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Most likely, because no one on this thread has been in company meetings from Fortune 500s where this is reason being told for RTO, while they keep doing good old outsourcing as always. "Collaboration in the office strengthens opportunities for sales" is the message.
  - miltonlost 2y ago
    Nah, RTO is in no way trying to fix business sales. It's entirely a way to layoff workers or to control them. Trying to put an economic reason behind this power play is Febreezing a turd.
    - pas 2y ago
      it can be (and likely is) both at the same time. management wants to execute their fancy plan to make more money, and see control, supervision, faster iteration, tighter feedback loops, blablabla ... as one part of it, hence the amazing "all hands on deck" idea that today is "everyone in the office".
  - CapeTheory 2y ago
    From the inside, RTO feels more like a way to reclaim leverage from highly paid technical employees who have become too uppity. Summoning us back to the office is about putting us in our place - but in the social hierarchy, not physically.
    - gopher_space 2y ago
      The uppity, highly paid technical employee has recreated our SaaS offering on his laptop and it is now effectively free for self-hosting. VP of Sales has left nine voicemails, would you like to play them now?
      - CapeTheory 2y ago
        "Buncha fuckin' nerds, don't they know I got an MBA from Hahvad?"
    - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
      I genuinely wonder if that is actually the case. Our team ( fairly technical team within a non-technical type company ) repeatedly ( edit: and successfully) pushed back against any kind of RTO ( I personally sent rather non-corporate email asking why the RTO calls if they can't even get enough desks for rotation ). I am sure bosses hate being questioned, but I don't see anyone begging to do my job. In other words, something has got to give. I don't know what is going to happen exactly. I feel the push from bigger corps will give smaller one a "permission" to do it as well, but I know I am already doing what I can to make sure I am ready. Last time the company tried to call me back in specifically, I was lucky enough to secure current position and was able to tell them no. That said, even today, I know I would not be able to get my job back there and I didn't burn bridges in any conventional way ( unless you consider saying no to RTO burning a bridge ). Fun times ahead.
  - rsanek 2y ago
    > sales are down What metric are you using? https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/5748/sp-500-revenue-ttm https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/5748/sp-500-re...
stego-tech 2y ago
This quite literally cuts both ways, and workers know it. If you can outsource work abroad, then you cannot justify mandating everyone be in the office. If you’re mandating everyone be in the office, then you can’t be outsourcing work abroad. Workers aren’t stupid, and ignoring them is what leads to Unions.
al_borland 2y ago
It’s not even just a matter of being all in the US, they would need to have everyone in a single office. The second teams need to work together between offices, the in-person pop-in chat is dead. Of course this doesn’t mean it turns into a days long email chain, in be a quick call. People randomly stopping at my desk was a huge productivity killer when I was in the office. Working from home, that killer turns to meetings and group chats. Both arrangements have their issues when it comes to interruptions. At least at home I can control if those apps are open and allowing notifications, if I really do need to be heads down to meet a deadline. When outsourcing across timezones, that’s when those quick chats, regardless of the medium, start to take days, because each reply takes a day.
rdtsc 2y ago
> This is nothing short of a stealth layoff Absolutely. They should just stop pretending. They know they are lying as they say it's all about collaborating closer and communication. The workers know they are lying. They workers know the leaders know they are lying. But it's still not allowed to be acknowledged publicly. If it really was all about collaboration and communication this would be uniformly enforced as much as possible globally and the budget to travel and in-person meetups for teams would have been greatly increased. If neither one of those is happening, it's just too obvious.
- wormius 2y ago
  "The workers know they are lying. They workers know the leaders know they are lying. But it's still not allowed to be acknowledged publicly." Man it reads SO much like Soviet days when the bureaucrats would say one thing, but the people would know it's bullshit, as did the leaders and everyone had to pretend it's "real".

pjmlp 2y ago

They are not alone, this is the reality in all companies demanding RTO.

rubicon33 2y ago
I think the underlying problem here is that despite what the stock market would have you believe, sales are down, moral is down, and many industries are experiencing light to moderate headwinds. RTO is an (desperate) attempt to resuscitate businesses experiencing economic woes.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Yes, I have heard that as well, because having people on the office is going to magically ramp up sales, as that is the missing factor why they aren't taking off. /s
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    You're misunderstanding what was said. It's about costs/income. RTO (probably) doesn't increase income - but people will (most likely) quit, reducing costs. Thus the ratio gets better.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      That for sure, note the sarcastic remark on my comment.
      - ffsm8 2y ago
        Well, until you made that sarcastic statement, nobody in this thread insinuated that it would increase sales, hence my comment
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Most likely, because no one on this thread has been in company meetings from Fortune 500s where this is reason being told for RTO, while they keep doing good old outsourcing as always. "Collaboration in the office strengthens opportunities for sales" is the message.
- miltonlost 2y ago
  Nah, RTO is in no way trying to fix business sales. It's entirely a way to layoff workers or to control them. Trying to put an economic reason behind this power play is Febreezing a turd.
  - pas 2y ago
    it can be (and likely is) both at the same time. management wants to execute their fancy plan to make more money, and see control, supervision, faster iteration, tighter feedback loops, blablabla ... as one part of it, hence the amazing "all hands on deck" idea that today is "everyone in the office".
- CapeTheory 2y ago
  From the inside, RTO feels more like a way to reclaim leverage from highly paid technical employees who have become too uppity. Summoning us back to the office is about putting us in our place - but in the social hierarchy, not physically.
  - gopher_space 2y ago
    The uppity, highly paid technical employee has recreated our SaaS offering on his laptop and it is now effectively free for self-hosting. VP of Sales has left nine voicemails, would you like to play them now?
    - CapeTheory 2y ago
      "Buncha fuckin' nerds, don't they know I got an MBA from Hahvad?"
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
    I genuinely wonder if that is actually the case. Our team ( fairly technical team within a non-technical type company ) repeatedly ( edit: and successfully) pushed back against any kind of RTO ( I personally sent rather non-corporate email asking why the RTO calls if they can't even get enough desks for rotation ). I am sure bosses hate being questioned, but I don't see anyone begging to do my job. In other words, something has got to give. I don't know what is going to happen exactly. I feel the push from bigger corps will give smaller one a "permission" to do it as well, but I know I am already doing what I can to make sure I am ready. Last time the company tried to call me back in specifically, I was lucky enough to secure current position and was able to tell them no. That said, even today, I know I would not be able to get my job back there and I didn't burn bridges in any conventional way ( unless you consider saying no to RTO burning a bridge ). Fun times ahead.
- rsanek 2y ago
  > sales are down What metric are you using? https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/5748/sp-500-revenue-ttm https://www.gurufocus.com/economic_indicators/5748/sp-500-re...

stego-tech 2y ago

This quite literally cuts both ways, and workers know it. If you can outsource work abroad, then you cannot justify mandating everyone be in the office. If you’re mandating everyone be in the office, then you can’t be outsourcing work abroad. Workers aren’t stupid, and ignoring them is what leads to Unions.

al_borland 2y ago

It’s not even just a matter of being all in the US, they would need to have everyone in a single office. The second teams need to work together between offices, the in-person pop-in chat is dead. Of course this doesn’t mean it turns into a days long email chain, in be a quick call. People randomly stopping at my desk was a huge productivity killer when I was in the office. Working from home, that killer turns to meetings and group chats. Both arrangements have their issues when it comes to interruptions. At least at home I can control if those apps are open and allowing notifications, if I really do need to be heads down to meet a deadline. When outsourcing across timezones, that’s when those quick chats, regardless of the medium, start to take days, because each reply takes a day.

rdtsc 2y ago

> This is nothing short of a stealth layoff Absolutely. They should just stop pretending. They know they are lying as they say it's all about collaborating closer and communication. The workers know they are lying. They workers know the leaders know they are lying. But it's still not allowed to be acknowledged publicly. If it really was all about collaboration and communication this would be uniformly enforced as much as possible globally and the budget to travel and in-person meetups for teams would have been greatly increased. If neither one of those is happening, it's just too obvious.

wormius 2y ago
"The workers know they are lying. They workers know the leaders know they are lying. But it's still not allowed to be acknowledged publicly." Man it reads SO much like Soviet days when the bureaucrats would say one thing, but the people would know it's bullshit, as did the leaders and everyone had to pretend it's "real".