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Last author here. I agree that states already have little incentive to effectively represent their citizens. But they could have even less! What would it loo

Last author here. I agree that states already have little incentive to effectively represent their citizens. But they could have even less! What would it look like to face these issues but more directly? Ending capitalism and competition?

keybored 2y ago
> But they could have even less! Driven by the most direct, tangible cause of the capitalists pursuing their own narrow interests. And AI fits in there as well ($500B funding to AI says Trump). > What would it look like to face these issues but more directly? Socialism. It doesn’t matter that jobs are automated away under socialism since there is no capital/worker social relation. If jobs are automated everyone just works less. > Ending capitalism and competition? You put those two together for some reason. Capitalism and the state sector have lead to amazing improvements in the productive capacity of society overall. A lack of, at least from our First World perspective at least, doesn’t seem to be an issue. Instead the problem is (1) unsustainable growth (climate change) and (2) directing the productive capacity towards pro-social goals. So yes a change is long overdue. Productive competition happens under capitalism. And sometimes it doesn’t. There’s plenty of accusations of Big Tech being anti-competitive on this site.
- duvenaud 2y ago
  I appreciate your engagement, and I don't really have a plan myself to address these problems, but I don't really know what to do with "Socialism" as a recommendation. Care to elaborate what you think I, or anyone should do or advocate for more concretely? The reason I mentioned competition is that, even under a complete command economy, there is still internal competition for control, which I think would still lead to human disempowerment eventually for similar reasons. Though probably on a longer time scale, which might still be a win. The only way to avoid being outcompeted is to have a total state ruled by something sufficiently agentic to resist all attempts to even adjust its policies. Which sounds terrifying and hard to get right on the first try.
  - keybored 2y ago
    > I appreciate your engagement, and I don't really have a plan myself to address these problems, but I don't really know what to do with "Socialism" as a recommendation. Care to elaborate what you think I, or anyone should do or advocate for more concretely? A typical/classic way to build socialism is to organize the working class.

keybored 2y ago

> But they could have even less! Driven by the most direct, tangible cause of the capitalists pursuing their own narrow interests. And AI fits in there as well ($500B funding to AI says Trump). > What would it look like to face these issues but more directly? Socialism. It doesn’t matter that jobs are automated away under socialism since there is no capital/worker social relation. If jobs are automated everyone just works less. > Ending capitalism and competition? You put those two together for some reason. Capitalism and the state sector have lead to amazing improvements in the productive capacity of society overall. A lack of, at least from our First World perspective at least, doesn’t seem to be an issue. Instead the problem is (1) unsustainable growth (climate change) and (2) directing the productive capacity towards pro-social goals. So yes a change is long overdue. Productive competition happens under capitalism. And sometimes it doesn’t. There’s plenty of accusations of Big Tech being anti-competitive on this site.

duvenaud 2y ago
I appreciate your engagement, and I don't really have a plan myself to address these problems, but I don't really know what to do with "Socialism" as a recommendation. Care to elaborate what you think I, or anyone should do or advocate for more concretely? The reason I mentioned competition is that, even under a complete command economy, there is still internal competition for control, which I think would still lead to human disempowerment eventually for similar reasons. Though probably on a longer time scale, which might still be a win. The only way to avoid being outcompeted is to have a total state ruled by something sufficiently agentic to resist all attempts to even adjust its policies. Which sounds terrifying and hard to get right on the first try.
- keybored 2y ago
  > I appreciate your engagement, and I don't really have a plan myself to address these problems, but I don't really know what to do with "Socialism" as a recommendation. Care to elaborate what you think I, or anyone should do or advocate for more concretely? A typical/classic way to build socialism is to organize the working class.