8 ms·

The name Pwn2Own is quite ironic. Who really owns their vehicle nowadays? I hope these security efforts don't lock legitimate owners out of access to their veh

by jannes 2y ago

The name Pwn2Own is quite ironic. Who really owns their vehicle nowadays? I hope these security efforts don't lock legitimate owners out of access to their vehicles.

HPsquared 2y ago
Old basic cars are easier to own, and harder to pwn.
- bagels 2y ago
  Depends how old. Anything before mid 90s was trivial to steal with little or no equipment.
  - burrish 2y ago
    true, there's got to be out there some car, recent enough to not be stolen easily and old enough not to have all that hyper connectivity IoT bs
    - bagels 2y ago
      2005
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      2000-2005 is the sweet spot. Cars had immobilizers but not keyless entry. Basic electronics: airbags, electric windows, radio. Engines were naturally aspirated with port injection.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    62 fairlane, I'd welcome the attempt. If they somehow manage to both prime the fuel pump and trick the carb into introducing enough fuel into the engine to get it to start before the battery's stone dead I'd pay a princely sum for live video of them trying to figure out where first gear is while getting a rude introduction to purely mechanical steering. Given what I paid for it, I could have 6-10 of it stolen before I'm in the neighborhood of sticker on a "cheap" new car.
    - jychang 2y ago
      Doesn't take much equipment to steal it, though. And column shifters still exist- hell, even the Tesla Model 3 has one- so any gen z kid who knows how a manual transmission works can shift it into gear.
      - forgetfreeman 2y ago
        I am quite certain that getting this vehicle started and out of it's parking space is fraught in ways that beggar belief for anyone who hasn't spent a significant portion of their life dealing with the vagaries of shitty vintage project cars, and even then this one's got several tricks up her sleeve that the initiated won't see coming. Think three on the tree, on the floor, with more than one wildly out of place barrier preventing straightforward movement through the shift pattern. Getting this thing in first is less like shifting a car and more like picking an oldschool lock with ward plates. Then there's the combination of dodgy battery and mulish fuel delivery system to contend with. The only person I've ever met who can consistently get this thing to crank cold is the lunatic that chopped out the aftermarket electric fuel pump and replaced it with an OEM mechanical pump out of sheer perversity. Equipment? Hell I could leave the key in the ignition and a sign in a window DARING someone to try and I still like my odds.
  - kristjank 2y ago
    The cutoff is at modern infotainment systems. If you still have a car stereo, you're probably good.
  - pbmonster 2y ago
    Really? Mechanical steering column locks were common by the late 70s, right? I'm not aware of any "trivial" bypass, especially not without tools.
    - bagels 2y ago
      Screwdriver. Many of them have sheared pins such that the lock doesn't engage.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > and harder to pwn All it takes to pwn a Volkswagen T4 from the mid-90s is to rake the lock, pry open or smash the door, and then about half a minute to hot-wire three pins on the ignition switch (one for the main power and one for the starter motor), although I think that you should be able to motor-rake the ignition switch as well. Source: owned and heavily worked on one for a few years. Reliable as fuck but thank god Europe doesn't have much of a "joyride" scene.
  - fingerlocks 2y ago
    That’s why everyone has now installed a hidden fuel pump kill switch in their T4s. At least in the US
mschuster91 2y ago
> I hope these security efforts don't lock legitimate owners out of access to their vehicles. Well that's the thing with cars. Anything the legitimate owner can do because they have physical access, a thief can also do... and even if you force manufacturers to provide a "rooting mode" aka you enter some PIN that you get at purchase into the car's infotainment and it will relax restrictions on the CAN bus, now you open up the gates for thieves as well. And on top of that come the actual reasons for the security theatre: people modifying their ECUs to tune up their engines for higher power or speed limiters in trucks than is stated in the vehicle papers (at least in Europe, if you tune your vehicle and don't have the papers updated you're in legit felony territory), doing shit mods like "rolling coal" or otherwise tampering with emission controls (say to avoid having to refill adblue)... governments really REALLY do not like this and so regulations get tightened ever closer.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  Don’t forget the “nothing wrong but the $$$ sensor is broken” bypasses.

by jannes 2y ago

The name Pwn2Own is quite ironic. Who really owns their vehicle nowadays? I hope these security efforts don't lock legitimate owners out of access to their vehicles.

HPsquared 2y ago

Old basic cars are easier to own, and harder to pwn.

bagels 2y ago
Depends how old. Anything before mid 90s was trivial to steal with little or no equipment.
- burrish 2y ago
  true, there's got to be out there some car, recent enough to not be stolen easily and old enough not to have all that hyper connectivity IoT bs
  - bagels 2y ago
    2005
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    2000-2005 is the sweet spot. Cars had immobilizers but not keyless entry. Basic electronics: airbags, electric windows, radio. Engines were naturally aspirated with port injection.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  62 fairlane, I'd welcome the attempt. If they somehow manage to both prime the fuel pump and trick the carb into introducing enough fuel into the engine to get it to start before the battery's stone dead I'd pay a princely sum for live video of them trying to figure out where first gear is while getting a rude introduction to purely mechanical steering. Given what I paid for it, I could have 6-10 of it stolen before I'm in the neighborhood of sticker on a "cheap" new car.
  - jychang 2y ago
    Doesn't take much equipment to steal it, though. And column shifters still exist- hell, even the Tesla Model 3 has one- so any gen z kid who knows how a manual transmission works can shift it into gear.
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      I am quite certain that getting this vehicle started and out of it's parking space is fraught in ways that beggar belief for anyone who hasn't spent a significant portion of their life dealing with the vagaries of shitty vintage project cars, and even then this one's got several tricks up her sleeve that the initiated won't see coming. Think three on the tree, on the floor, with more than one wildly out of place barrier preventing straightforward movement through the shift pattern. Getting this thing in first is less like shifting a car and more like picking an oldschool lock with ward plates. Then there's the combination of dodgy battery and mulish fuel delivery system to contend with. The only person I've ever met who can consistently get this thing to crank cold is the lunatic that chopped out the aftermarket electric fuel pump and replaced it with an OEM mechanical pump out of sheer perversity. Equipment? Hell I could leave the key in the ignition and a sign in a window DARING someone to try and I still like my odds.
- kristjank 2y ago
  The cutoff is at modern infotainment systems. If you still have a car stereo, you're probably good.
- pbmonster 2y ago
  Really? Mechanical steering column locks were common by the late 70s, right? I'm not aware of any "trivial" bypass, especially not without tools.
  - bagels 2y ago
    Screwdriver. Many of them have sheared pins such that the lock doesn't engage.
mschuster91 2y ago
> and harder to pwn All it takes to pwn a Volkswagen T4 from the mid-90s is to rake the lock, pry open or smash the door, and then about half a minute to hot-wire three pins on the ignition switch (one for the main power and one for the starter motor), although I think that you should be able to motor-rake the ignition switch as well. Source: owned and heavily worked on one for a few years. Reliable as fuck but thank god Europe doesn't have much of a "joyride" scene.
- fingerlocks 2y ago
  That’s why everyone has now installed a hidden fuel pump kill switch in their T4s. At least in the US

mschuster91 2y ago

> I hope these security efforts don't lock legitimate owners out of access to their vehicles. Well that's the thing with cars. Anything the legitimate owner can do because they have physical access, a thief can also do... and even if you force manufacturers to provide a "rooting mode" aka you enter some PIN that you get at purchase into the car's infotainment and it will relax restrictions on the CAN bus, now you open up the gates for thieves as well. And on top of that come the actual reasons for the security theatre: people modifying their ECUs to tune up their engines for higher power or speed limiters in trucks than is stated in the vehicle papers (at least in Europe, if you tune your vehicle and don't have the papers updated you're in legit felony territory), doing shit mods like "rolling coal" or otherwise tampering with emission controls (say to avoid having to refill adblue)... governments really REALLY do not like this and so regulations get tightened ever closer.

Scoundreller 2y ago
Don’t forget the “nothing wrong but the $$$ sensor is broken” bypasses.