5 ms·

This isn't all that different to how I use my gaming PC - it's off in another room, with a monitor that is plugged in but almost always off (I don't think Windo

This isn't all that different to how I use my gaming PC - it's off in another room, with a monitor that is plugged in but almost always off (I don't think Windows will boot without at least something plugged in?), Steam set to start on boot, and then I entirely use it via Steam Remote Play from my main PC.

S--M 2y ago
Have you tried sunshine + moonlight? I've heard it has lower latency and better streaming quality.
- papichulo2023 2y ago
  A then you can use lossless scaling on moonlight for a real amazing distrubed gaming experience.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    Okay this all sounds great, what specs do I need on the machine connected to the TV? Will a Raspberry Pi 3 work? Pine64? Atomic Pi? (That's x86_64, intel Celeron) Anything more than that and the value proposition goes way down. For every 50 grams lighter I am willing to lose 1fps. For every fan removed I will drop an entire resolution (4k -> 2k -> FHD...) Change "lighter" to heavier if it makes sense. My comfort and aesthetic matters more than competition quality, pixel perfect yadda I keep starring these remote display projects but none have convinced me to provision a client machine for the purpose yet.
    - alias_neo 2y ago
      It doesn't take too much compute, the networking is the key. I've run Moonlight on a bunch of things from my TV, crappy old Android TV box, phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, ROG Ally; don't recall if I ever tried a Pi, but I might give it a go. My advice is, whatever you use, make sure it has wired ethernet for a consistent experience. That said, a more powerful device on the receiving end (Moonlight) with good high-speed wifi should also work fine, but almost always try to keep the PC end (Sunshine) hard-wired.
      - papichulo2023 2y ago
        Lossless scaling requires some horsepower though
        genewitch 2y ago
        the gaming machine can handle all that, as i currently use it with a steam link (mentioned elsewhere) which means it's scaled from 4k/2k to 1080p or 720p depending on what TV i'm on. I'm sure i can run 4k (with a dummy hdmi dongle as i don't have a 4k plugged in to this pc anymore) with moonlight/sunlight/etc because i can do it with remote desktop!
      - genewitch 2y ago
        thanks, i have fiber and copper at the TVs. not in a pretty, or impressive way, i just have a switch next to the sets is all. fiber is impervious to most lightning strikes. I got some hardware, someone else mentioned h264/265 hard requirements, but there were codecs before that for FHD that even a pi model B could handle (among them x264 i imagine). My main viewscreen is 720p60, DLP, it's real sensitive to artifacts in the visual output being literally glaring. doesn't take much horsepower to move 720p60 relative to fhd or 4k, imo; but here i am, hands out, begging for solutions!
        alias_neo 2y ago
        I imagine it's related to what Sunshine/Moonlight is compatible with. In terms of codecs, Pi4 is the best option (out of the Pi family) for hardware video decoders, Pi5 removed some hardware decoders which is unfortunate.
    - nullify88 2y ago
      At a minimum anything with h264 hardware decoding. H265, and VC1 hardware decoding supported but optional. It depends on what your output is. Networking wise, cabled is the best latency and bandwidth wise but wireless also works but can be unpredictable depending on usage and environment.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Can confirm that. Using both to connect to the same windows box and sunshine+moonlight is better latency wise for fast paced games. And for games bought from GoG unless you want to configure Steam to launch them :) Steam streaming is more convenient if the game is on steam and it's turn based or something like that. Also if the (mac) box you're streaming to has multiple monitors, Steam will continue to show the game if you cmd-tab out of it, while moonlight will minimize from the start.
- moffkalast 2y ago
  I prefer indoor lighting myself.
- izacus 2y ago
  Yep, I found that combination to be better when it comes to lag, stability and quality as well. Especially now that they added a 4:4:4 chroma subsampling option which fixes things like text edges in some cases.
maxglute 2y ago
Ditto I grabbed a few clearance steamlinks and have all the TVs remote play to my single high power desktop and use a normal browser for media. I had it running on ASTER at one point, a multiseat windows software so I can be on main computer and others can use steamlink on alternate windows profile and few issues. Performance was rarely issue, especially even on wireless, and it's nice to have everything happening in 1 box.
prmoustache 2y ago
I find it rather funny some people are completely fine playing remotely while others are obsessing over milliseconds of input or output lag.
daemoens 2y ago
You could get a dummy HDMI plug for $3 on Amazon and free up that monitor if you need it. [1] [1] https://www.amazon.com/BKFK-HDMI-Dummy-Plug-3840x2160/dp/B0CJZFKQLR https://www.amazon.com/BKFK-HDMI-Dummy-Plug-3840x2160/dp/B0C...
- ekimekim 2y ago
  I do use it occasionally - mostly when Windows has thrown up some issue stopping Steam from working properly. eg. I need to dismiss a dialog that is invisible over remote play, or it won't finish logging in until I close a "finish setting up your windows install" screen.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    Go to the gaming machine and upgrade it to > home or edu version if needed. Enable remote desktop with auth on your network for that machine. As long as Windows is booted and able to be logged in to on the gaming machine you can go on your other machine: Win+R mstsc.exe and put in the gaming machine's name or IP and follow the instructions, checking all "remember this" boxes (there's 2, three if you count the certificate). RDP won't let you play games but it is functionally identical to sitting at the machine itself.
    - genewitch 2y ago
      I meant to come back and fix this but missed the window. I am unsure if the home/edu/N/P whatever versions of windows 7, 8, 10, and 11 support actually remote controlling the desktop as opposed to merely getting a "video feed" as it were. There's ways to upgrade to pro that are beyond my pay grade to discuss, but i think you can get a clean copy of windows that supports RDP for $130. If your alternative is "having a monitor plugged in 24/7" or "dummy cables but still have to plug a monitor in if something goes wrong with steam link {and it will. -ed.}" or other hacks/hardware, and you're already running windows at least the GPU/gaming side, RDP practically pays for itself even though it's $130 for that feature. Someone else probably has alternatives (moonlight? bazzite? gopro and a soviet-era robotic arm (it only leaks a bit when it's hot outside.))
thesuitonym 2y ago
Windows will boot without a monitor, or at least, it used to, not sure about Windows 11. But Steam Link mirrors your display, and so doesn’t work without one.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  Can confirm. I boot Windows 11 without screen, then connect via RDP without issue
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV or https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/Apollo https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/Apollo (sunshine fork with auto virtual display) note that RDP works without plugs/virtual displays.
- gaudystead 2y ago
  I built a NUC running Windows 11 into a tiny portable server for a project I was building and can confirm it boots and functions just fine without being plugged into a monitor. I just plug it into a power source and it does what I need it to do, but I can plug a monitor and keyboard (and sometimes a mouse because keyboard-only navigation seems to be getting less and less supported/intuitive...) if I need to perform troubleshooting.
  - dicknuckle 2y ago
    The issue is usually with the graphics card itself in my experience. This is easily "fixed" on a DVI port by plugging a resistor of the correct value into two of the tiny pin sockets. The diagram is very easy to find online and you don't have to open the computer. That's become a thing of the past as far as I know.
    - TiredOfLife 2y ago
      https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV
bhaney 2y ago
This is one of many reasons why I just don't let Windows touch bare metal. My old gaming rig was a Linux machine that would boot a Windows VM with GPU passthrough, and the control I had over the virtual hardware that Windows thought it was attached to was really helpful for working around a lot of Windows bullshit. Won't boot without a screen? Virtually attach a fake one. Recognizes a device and tries to auto-install the garbage manufacturer-provided driver? Run the better Linux driver (if one exists) and have qemu present Windows with a generic version of the device. Want to debug some issue that requires disconnecting a piece of hardware? Just take it out of the qemu command instead of needing to go physically disconnect it. Want some remote peripheral attached that Windows has no idea how to talk to? Proxy it over the network in Linux and just present it to the Windows VM as a USB device. Having full control over the world that Windows lives in makes it much more manageable.
- jokethrowaway 2y ago
  Since a few years, I just play on Linux Almost anything works with proton - unless you're playing competitive online games with anti cheats software
  - bhaney 2y ago
    Same. My Steam Deck has completely replaced my old gaming VM.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Same. I only stopped because managing storage became a problem - three huge games came out that I wanted to play. Were I to do this again I wouldn't do ryzen I'd do at minimum a threadripper, so that the guest can get a USB pcie card and a GPU, so literally every device windows sees and talks to is virtualized. Usb keyboard, mouse, soundcard, etc. I think LTT did an epyc build where 1 epyc ran 3 full "Desktops" with GPUs, nvme, for each virtual machine dedicated. I just need the one!
soyiuz 2y ago
I did that for while, but recently switched to Bazzite. It's a much smoother experience.

S--M 2y ago

Have you tried sunshine + moonlight? I've heard it has lower latency and better streaming quality.

papichulo2023 2y ago
A then you can use lossless scaling on moonlight for a real amazing distrubed gaming experience.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Okay this all sounds great, what specs do I need on the machine connected to the TV? Will a Raspberry Pi 3 work? Pine64? Atomic Pi? (That's x86_64, intel Celeron) Anything more than that and the value proposition goes way down. For every 50 grams lighter I am willing to lose 1fps. For every fan removed I will drop an entire resolution (4k -> 2k -> FHD...) Change "lighter" to heavier if it makes sense. My comfort and aesthetic matters more than competition quality, pixel perfect yadda I keep starring these remote display projects but none have convinced me to provision a client machine for the purpose yet.
  - alias_neo 2y ago
    It doesn't take too much compute, the networking is the key. I've run Moonlight on a bunch of things from my TV, crappy old Android TV box, phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, ROG Ally; don't recall if I ever tried a Pi, but I might give it a go. My advice is, whatever you use, make sure it has wired ethernet for a consistent experience. That said, a more powerful device on the receiving end (Moonlight) with good high-speed wifi should also work fine, but almost always try to keep the PC end (Sunshine) hard-wired.
    - papichulo2023 2y ago
      Lossless scaling requires some horsepower though
      - genewitch 2y ago
        the gaming machine can handle all that, as i currently use it with a steam link (mentioned elsewhere) which means it's scaled from 4k/2k to 1080p or 720p depending on what TV i'm on. I'm sure i can run 4k (with a dummy hdmi dongle as i don't have a 4k plugged in to this pc anymore) with moonlight/sunlight/etc because i can do it with remote desktop!
    - genewitch 2y ago
      thanks, i have fiber and copper at the TVs. not in a pretty, or impressive way, i just have a switch next to the sets is all. fiber is impervious to most lightning strikes. I got some hardware, someone else mentioned h264/265 hard requirements, but there were codecs before that for FHD that even a pi model B could handle (among them x264 i imagine). My main viewscreen is 720p60, DLP, it's real sensitive to artifacts in the visual output being literally glaring. doesn't take much horsepower to move 720p60 relative to fhd or 4k, imo; but here i am, hands out, begging for solutions!
      - alias_neo 2y ago
        I imagine it's related to what Sunshine/Moonlight is compatible with. In terms of codecs, Pi4 is the best option (out of the Pi family) for hardware video decoders, Pi5 removed some hardware decoders which is unfortunate.
  - nullify88 2y ago
    At a minimum anything with h264 hardware decoding. H265, and VC1 hardware decoding supported but optional. It depends on what your output is. Networking wise, cabled is the best latency and bandwidth wise but wireless also works but can be unpredictable depending on usage and environment.
nottorp 2y ago
Can confirm that. Using both to connect to the same windows box and sunshine+moonlight is better latency wise for fast paced games. And for games bought from GoG unless you want to configure Steam to launch them :) Steam streaming is more convenient if the game is on steam and it's turn based or something like that. Also if the (mac) box you're streaming to has multiple monitors, Steam will continue to show the game if you cmd-tab out of it, while moonlight will minimize from the start.
moffkalast 2y ago
I prefer indoor lighting myself.
izacus 2y ago
Yep, I found that combination to be better when it comes to lag, stability and quality as well. Especially now that they added a 4:4:4 chroma subsampling option which fixes things like text edges in some cases.

maxglute 2y ago

Ditto I grabbed a few clearance steamlinks and have all the TVs remote play to my single high power desktop and use a normal browser for media. I had it running on ASTER at one point, a multiseat windows software so I can be on main computer and others can use steamlink on alternate windows profile and few issues. Performance was rarely issue, especially even on wireless, and it's nice to have everything happening in 1 box.

prmoustache 2y ago

I find it rather funny some people are completely fine playing remotely while others are obsessing over milliseconds of input or output lag.

daemoens 2y ago

You could get a dummy HDMI plug for $3 on Amazon and free up that monitor if you need it. [1] [1] https://www.amazon.com/BKFK-HDMI-Dummy-Plug-3840x2160/dp/B0CJZFKQLR https://www.amazon.com/BKFK-HDMI-Dummy-Plug-3840x2160/dp/B0C...

ekimekim 2y ago
I do use it occasionally - mostly when Windows has thrown up some issue stopping Steam from working properly. eg. I need to dismiss a dialog that is invisible over remote play, or it won't finish logging in until I close a "finish setting up your windows install" screen.
- genewitch 2y ago
  Go to the gaming machine and upgrade it to > home or edu version if needed. Enable remote desktop with auth on your network for that machine. As long as Windows is booted and able to be logged in to on the gaming machine you can go on your other machine: Win+R mstsc.exe and put in the gaming machine's name or IP and follow the instructions, checking all "remember this" boxes (there's 2, three if you count the certificate). RDP won't let you play games but it is functionally identical to sitting at the machine itself.
  - genewitch 2y ago
    I meant to come back and fix this but missed the window. I am unsure if the home/edu/N/P whatever versions of windows 7, 8, 10, and 11 support actually remote controlling the desktop as opposed to merely getting a "video feed" as it were. There's ways to upgrade to pro that are beyond my pay grade to discuss, but i think you can get a clean copy of windows that supports RDP for $130. If your alternative is "having a monitor plugged in 24/7" or "dummy cables but still have to plug a monitor in if something goes wrong with steam link {and it will. -ed.}" or other hacks/hardware, and you're already running windows at least the GPU/gaming side, RDP practically pays for itself even though it's $130 for that feature. Someone else probably has alternatives (moonlight? bazzite? gopro and a soviet-era robotic arm (it only leaks a bit when it's hot outside.))

thesuitonym 2y ago

Windows will boot without a monitor, or at least, it used to, not sure about Windows 11. But Steam Link mirrors your display, and so doesn’t work without one.

wongarsu 2y ago
Can confirm. I boot Windows 11 without screen, then connect via RDP without issue
TiredOfLife 2y ago
https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV or https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/Apollo https://github.com/ClassicOldSong/Apollo (sunshine fork with auto virtual display) note that RDP works without plugs/virtual displays.
gaudystead 2y ago
I built a NUC running Windows 11 into a tiny portable server for a project I was building and can confirm it boots and functions just fine without being plugged into a monitor. I just plug it into a power source and it does what I need it to do, but I can plug a monitor and keyboard (and sometimes a mouse because keyboard-only navigation seems to be getting less and less supported/intuitive...) if I need to perform troubleshooting.
- dicknuckle 2y ago
  The issue is usually with the graphics card itself in my experience. This is easily "fixed" on a DVI port by plugging a resistor of the correct value into two of the tiny pin sockets. The diagram is very easy to find online and you don't have to open the computer. That's become a thing of the past as far as I know.
  - TiredOfLife 2y ago
    https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV https://github.com/timminator/Enhanced-GPU-PV

bhaney 2y ago

This is one of many reasons why I just don't let Windows touch bare metal. My old gaming rig was a Linux machine that would boot a Windows VM with GPU passthrough, and the control I had over the virtual hardware that Windows thought it was attached to was really helpful for working around a lot of Windows bullshit. Won't boot without a screen? Virtually attach a fake one. Recognizes a device and tries to auto-install the garbage manufacturer-provided driver? Run the better Linux driver (if one exists) and have qemu present Windows with a generic version of the device. Want to debug some issue that requires disconnecting a piece of hardware? Just take it out of the qemu command instead of needing to go physically disconnect it. Want some remote peripheral attached that Windows has no idea how to talk to? Proxy it over the network in Linux and just present it to the Windows VM as a USB device. Having full control over the world that Windows lives in makes it much more manageable.

jokethrowaway 2y ago
Since a few years, I just play on Linux Almost anything works with proton - unless you're playing competitive online games with anti cheats software
- bhaney 2y ago
  Same. My Steam Deck has completely replaced my old gaming VM.
genewitch 2y ago
Same. I only stopped because managing storage became a problem - three huge games came out that I wanted to play. Were I to do this again I wouldn't do ryzen I'd do at minimum a threadripper, so that the guest can get a USB pcie card and a GPU, so literally every device windows sees and talks to is virtualized. Usb keyboard, mouse, soundcard, etc. I think LTT did an epyc build where 1 epyc ran 3 full "Desktops" with GPUs, nvme, for each virtual machine dedicated. I just need the one!

soyiuz 2y ago

I did that for while, but recently switched to Bazzite. It's a much smoother experience.