5 ms·

At a corporate job, starting projects will catapult you more than finishing them. Especially long multi year projects. My mentor mentioned this to me and it to

At a corporate job, starting projects will catapult you more than finishing them. Especially long multi year projects. My mentor mentioned this to me and it took me a LONG time to understand it. Starting an AI project for example will: 1. position you as the AI thought leader just becuase you were first to the idea 2. associate AI used anywhere with you 3. bring you up in any conversation about AI It's really weird but this how all those useless executives operate. Start projects and leave :) . Highly recommend reading "Stealing the Corner Offfice" https://a.co/d/5dTRSNQ https://a.co/d/5dTRSNQ if you don't plan to do a startup.

nyokodo 2y ago
> this how all those useless executives operate Being visible in a positive way to the right people is 100% necessary for career advancement inside companies. The fact that this is abused by otherwise incompetent people is unfortunate, but good people need to understand and use this knowledge to advance also.
- f1shy 2y ago
  I think incompetent people (Management above) get abused by other incompetent people. When the circle starts, is the slow decay of the Company.
- qwertyuiop_ 2y ago
  Spot on. One look at LinkedIn posts tells you everything about this “paperclip” optimization.
scarface_74 2y ago
Opposite view “smart and gets things done” https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid... When it’s time to interview, interviewers ask for results. That’s the entire “R” in answering interview questions in STAR format.
- mikesurowiec 2y ago
  I’ve seen people spin Results in their favor within a company, where you can validate them, but for interviews it seems nearly impossible to validate. Does anyone have techniques for that?
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    My job as a developer (until 2020) was to ensure the project or major feature I was over was done on time, on budget and meets requirements. My job was not to go out and sale the product whether the product made $0 or $1 million dollars I had no control over. The other thing I need to communicate is that I am capable of working at the level of scope, impact and ambiguity required for the job. https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html I didn’t understand that myself until a decade ago. Before the gatekeeping starts (not by you), yes it got me through a 5 round behavioral loop at BigTech (AWS’s consulting department) and after leaving, now a “staff software architect” at a third party consulting company (both full time direct hires).
    - anotherhue 2y ago
      > ensure the project or major feature I was over was done on time, on budget and meets requirements. The issue with this is that the bounds are drawn by someone else, the best you can do is 'meet them'. No one really cares if you save 90% of the budget, it was already allocated and will just get funnelled off somewhere else. It doesn't matter if it's early, because they probably didn't need it until they said they needed it, and 'meets requirements' is a given. Compare this to a sales job or something more outward facing, a sales person might have targets but can blow them out of the water with some luck and skill (and get paid commission). They aren't operating within someone else's small framework, but a free variable against the open market.
      - BobbyTables2 2y ago
        Also equally thankless when one team meets all goals/deadlines for their small product but the rest of the department is a dumpster fire — making the entire product suite unusable.
zo1 2y ago
I've seen this so much... It's quite disheartening when you are the actual expert or most-experienced person in terms of that "thing", but that's not how office politics works. What's worse is that when the "unapproved" person wants to start some sort of new project or initiative, they get constant push back in the form of "it's risky" or "where will we find the funding". Seen it 3 times in my 2 decade career where the "approved" person then X-amount of time later suggests the same thing and magically it's a good idea and funding appears out of thin air. You know how it went - they mentioned it to the right person on the golf course (or these days, at a cycling run).
- dreamcompiler 2y ago
  Same here. A closely related phenomenon is something I called the Information Week effect. Information Week used to be a paper magazine. Managers who made decisions about technology projects but who didn't really know anything about technology loved IW and read it on the crapper regularly. In my career I would routinely pitch ideas for new projects that would get no traction until 5 years later when the same idea showed up in IW. After that happened it was always easy to get funding. But by that time I was usually bored with the idea and on to the next thing.
- pillefitz 2y ago
  Was the idea sold the same way? You obviously need to get buy in across the org, which in itself can be a daunting task and requires you to create various pitch decks, project plans etc.
notjoemama 2y ago
> useless executives Thank you for saying it. After decades in software, I've developed the perspective the people at the top (of medium to large companies, not small ones) are actually bottom feeders and most software companies could function without having a c-suite. In all the years of this profession, it's as if software engineers cannot be optimized enough. Yet, when has a company taken a look at middle to upper management and tried to optimize that? They don't, or do it in name only. Those people are the financial and emotional ticks of an organization.
- keeptrying 2y ago
  Google and read the "Gervais Principle" by my friend Vekat. You're welcome and I'm sorry! :)
- khazhoux 2y ago
  I’ve been at several of the top tech companies and my observation is that most (though not all) the top executives do merit their positions. In terms of breadth of knowledge and perspective, depth on some number of key topics, and overall drive and impatience for inaction. I could choose to be more cynical in order to feel better about myself, but I accept that if I was the quarterback at college, they’re the NFL.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I agree. I've known execs who wouldn't be out of place in a Dilbert cartoon or were otherwise painful (and heard stories about others). But, by and large, they're pretty savvy and often work hours/travel to customers, etc. to a degree that many people here would absolutely hate.

nyokodo 2y ago

> this how all those useless executives operate Being visible in a positive way to the right people is 100% necessary for career advancement inside companies. The fact that this is abused by otherwise incompetent people is unfortunate, but good people need to understand and use this knowledge to advance also.

f1shy 2y ago
I think incompetent people (Management above) get abused by other incompetent people. When the circle starts, is the slow decay of the Company.
qwertyuiop_ 2y ago
Spot on. One look at LinkedIn posts tells you everything about this “paperclip” optimization.

scarface_74 2y ago

Opposite view “smart and gets things done” https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guide-to-interviewing-version-30/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2006/10/25/the-guerrilla-guid... When it’s time to interview, interviewers ask for results. That’s the entire “R” in answering interview questions in STAR format.

mikesurowiec 2y ago
I’ve seen people spin Results in their favor within a company, where you can validate them, but for interviews it seems nearly impossible to validate. Does anyone have techniques for that?
- scarface_74 2y ago
  My job as a developer (until 2020) was to ensure the project or major feature I was over was done on time, on budget and meets requirements. My job was not to go out and sale the product whether the product made $0 or $1 million dollars I had no control over. The other thing I need to communicate is that I am capable of working at the level of scope, impact and ambiguity required for the job. https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html I didn’t understand that myself until a decade ago. Before the gatekeeping starts (not by you), yes it got me through a 5 round behavioral loop at BigTech (AWS’s consulting department) and after leaving, now a “staff software architect” at a third party consulting company (both full time direct hires).
  - anotherhue 2y ago
    > ensure the project or major feature I was over was done on time, on budget and meets requirements. The issue with this is that the bounds are drawn by someone else, the best you can do is 'meet them'. No one really cares if you save 90% of the budget, it was already allocated and will just get funnelled off somewhere else. It doesn't matter if it's early, because they probably didn't need it until they said they needed it, and 'meets requirements' is a given. Compare this to a sales job or something more outward facing, a sales person might have targets but can blow them out of the water with some luck and skill (and get paid commission). They aren't operating within someone else's small framework, but a free variable against the open market.
    - BobbyTables2 2y ago
      Also equally thankless when one team meets all goals/deadlines for their small product but the rest of the department is a dumpster fire — making the entire product suite unusable.

zo1 2y ago

I've seen this so much... It's quite disheartening when you are the actual expert or most-experienced person in terms of that "thing", but that's not how office politics works. What's worse is that when the "unapproved" person wants to start some sort of new project or initiative, they get constant push back in the form of "it's risky" or "where will we find the funding". Seen it 3 times in my 2 decade career where the "approved" person then X-amount of time later suggests the same thing and magically it's a good idea and funding appears out of thin air. You know how it went - they mentioned it to the right person on the golf course (or these days, at a cycling run).

dreamcompiler 2y ago
Same here. A closely related phenomenon is something I called the Information Week effect. Information Week used to be a paper magazine. Managers who made decisions about technology projects but who didn't really know anything about technology loved IW and read it on the crapper regularly. In my career I would routinely pitch ideas for new projects that would get no traction until 5 years later when the same idea showed up in IW. After that happened it was always easy to get funding. But by that time I was usually bored with the idea and on to the next thing.
pillefitz 2y ago
Was the idea sold the same way? You obviously need to get buy in across the org, which in itself can be a daunting task and requires you to create various pitch decks, project plans etc.

notjoemama 2y ago

> useless executives Thank you for saying it. After decades in software, I've developed the perspective the people at the top (of medium to large companies, not small ones) are actually bottom feeders and most software companies could function without having a c-suite. In all the years of this profession, it's as if software engineers cannot be optimized enough. Yet, when has a company taken a look at middle to upper management and tried to optimize that? They don't, or do it in name only. Those people are the financial and emotional ticks of an organization.

keeptrying 2y ago
Google and read the "Gervais Principle" by my friend Vekat. You're welcome and I'm sorry! :)
khazhoux 2y ago
I’ve been at several of the top tech companies and my observation is that most (though not all) the top executives do merit their positions. In terms of breadth of knowledge and perspective, depth on some number of key topics, and overall drive and impatience for inaction. I could choose to be more cynical in order to feel better about myself, but I accept that if I was the quarterback at college, they’re the NFL.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I agree. I've known execs who wouldn't be out of place in a Dilbert cartoon or were otherwise painful (and heard stories about others). But, by and large, they're pretty savvy and often work hours/travel to customers, etc. to a degree that many people here would absolutely hate.