8 ms·

I don't support a Strategic Bitcoin Reserve, and neither should you

23 points by noch 2y ago

jdawg777 2y ago
Bitcoin is terrible for the environment and impractical for everyday transactions. If I want to buy a cup of coffee am I supposed to pay a $2 transaction fee and wait around for ten minutes for the transaction to complete?
- nout 2y ago
  Everyone uses the Lightning Network on top of bitcoin to have immediate settlement and almost zero fees for small payments. Where I am around 30% of all restaurants accept bitcoin and all of them over lightning, the transaction usually settles in 2 seconds and the fee is around 1-10 cents (USD) depending on amount you send.
- diggan 2y ago
  First time I'm hearing about a "Strategic Bitcoin Reserve", so I'm not fully sure what the purpose of it is. But I don't think it's meant to be for people to use to buy coffees with? Sounds like it's supposed to do something a bit broader, but again, not 100% sure what they propose it for.
  - jdawg777 2y ago
    I just think bitcoin is a scam and the US government shouldn't get involved with it. It would be like if the US government invested in a Strategic "Beanie-Baby Reserve" in the late 1990s.
    - exe34 2y ago
      probably means Elon has a bunch of it he wants to offload at a markup.
    - diggan 2y ago
      Doesn't scam require intent to defraud? Are you saying Bitcoin was created to defraud?
      - jdawg777 2y ago
        The proponents of crypto are scam artists. Whether they operate ponzi schemes like FTX, or whether they are just trying to inflate its value to pull the rug at a later date. They see BTC as an investment rather than a currency.
        diggan 2y ago
        > They see BTC as an investment rather than a currency. So you'd argue that the stock market is a scam too, since people use stocks not as a "what a company is worth" but as a investment they expect to gain in value, and they try to push narratives to support that?
        constantcrying 2y ago
        Nobody believes that Coca-Cola shares will be the basis of the coming economic system. Bitcoin lacks anything resembling intrinsic value. The intrinsic value of a Coca-Cola share is that you will receive a part of the profit of the company.
        npoc 2y ago
        You don't think good money has an intrinsic value as good money?
        constantcrying 2y ago
        Bitcoin is terrible money. It is less private than any bank account. It is significantly slower and pricier than any bank account for transactions. It removes control over money from governments and other institutions (which is by itself a death sentence).
  - bodiekane 2y ago
    It's literally just a pilfering of the American public to enrich crypto holders. If you have a lot of something, and you can get the government to buy a lot of it, that's very good for you. Bitcoin at this point is probably running out of retail rubes to buy it to keep the price going and the tether ponzi will eventually break if there isn't new money flowing into the system. Getting the government to buy and hold it would be an amazing coup and let current holders of bitcoin profit handsomely at the expense of the rest of society. It makes no sense in terms of economics, foreign policy, monetary policy, etc. But it makes a ton of sense in terms of "How can I extract the maximum amount of wealth from the public using my political power".
    - netsharc 2y ago
      Yeah, guess why JD Vance is VP: https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-know-about-jd-vances-connections-to-tech-billionaires https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-kno...
  - noch 2y ago
    > First time I'm hearing about a "Strategic Bitcoin Reserve" You should definitely know what your government might be involved in, after all government is made up of people many of whom are bitcoiners. Here is a report that's a good primer: "Digital Gold: Evaluating a Strategic Bitcoin Reserve for the United States" https://www.btcpolicy.org/articles/digital-gold-evaluating-a-strategic-bitcoin-reserve-for-the-united-states https://www.btcpolicy.org/articles/digital-gold-evaluating-a... Here's the "Strengthening American Leadership In Digital Financial Technology" executive order that discusses policy direction in the context of cryptocurrency: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/strengthening-american-leadership-in-digital-financial-technology/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/stre...
- constantcrying 2y ago
  No idea why you get down voted, but it is extremely clear that Bitcoin is useless as a currency. It is many orders of magnitude worse as payment network over existing solution. The one advantage it has, trustless transactions without the double spending problem, is not even desirable for governments. Why would any government want a payment system it can not control. Bitcoin is a literal meme, it's worth is entirely derived from the beliefs of some subculture.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    No, no, Bitcoin's actually incredibly useful for fraud, money laundering, tax avoidance, and other crimes.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      Not really. Monero is far superior on every metric. In the BTC network all transactions are publicly traceable, that makes it far too easy to identify people.
      - tromp 2y ago
        Monero is inferior on several metrics. Such as needing to keep track of all TXO rather than the orders of magnitude smaller set of UTXO. Or having a much more front-loaded emission (40% in first year, with intentionally crippled public miner).
        constantcrying 2y ago
        But anonymity is your #1 concern when doing fraud, money laundering or criminal transactions.
devoutsalsa 2y ago
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. Holding Bitcoin as a long term store of value works until people don’t want it anymore. The second it falls out of fashion, you’re Bitcoin horde isn’t even worth the paper it’s not printed on. To those who say Bitcoin is a revolutionary something something and I don’t get it, maybe that’s true. But as I see it, Bitcoin is only worth what it was last traded at, and there’s no way to predict whether or not someone will want to buy it for more than it’s current value. Thats just not an interesting investment to me, and it feels like gambling, so I don’t want to take participate. I hope your Bitcoin goes to the moon. If it does, send me a postcard from Shackleton Crater.
- npoc 2y ago
  Please explain what intrinsic value is
Matthyze 2y ago
Announcing your plan to soon buy a large amount of bitcoin sounds like a great way to pay more for that amount of bitcoin — right?
- lolc 2y ago
  They've already bought. Now announcing to pump their portfolio with federal money.

23 points by noch 2y ago

Bitcoin is terrible for the environment and impractical for everyday transactions. If I want to buy a cup of coffee am I supposed to pay a $2 transaction fee and wait around for ten minutes for the transaction to complete?

nout 2y ago
Everyone uses the Lightning Network on top of bitcoin to have immediate settlement and almost zero fees for small payments. Where I am around 30% of all restaurants accept bitcoin and all of them over lightning, the transaction usually settles in 2 seconds and the fee is around 1-10 cents (USD) depending on amount you send.
diggan 2y ago
First time I'm hearing about a "Strategic Bitcoin Reserve", so I'm not fully sure what the purpose of it is. But I don't think it's meant to be for people to use to buy coffees with? Sounds like it's supposed to do something a bit broader, but again, not 100% sure what they propose it for.
- jdawg777 2y ago
  I just think bitcoin is a scam and the US government shouldn't get involved with it. It would be like if the US government invested in a Strategic "Beanie-Baby Reserve" in the late 1990s.
  - exe34 2y ago
    probably means Elon has a bunch of it he wants to offload at a markup.
  - diggan 2y ago
    Doesn't scam require intent to defraud? Are you saying Bitcoin was created to defraud?
    - jdawg777 2y ago
      The proponents of crypto are scam artists. Whether they operate ponzi schemes like FTX, or whether they are just trying to inflate its value to pull the rug at a later date. They see BTC as an investment rather than a currency.
      - diggan 2y ago
        > They see BTC as an investment rather than a currency. So you'd argue that the stock market is a scam too, since people use stocks not as a "what a company is worth" but as a investment they expect to gain in value, and they try to push narratives to support that?
        constantcrying 2y ago
        Nobody believes that Coca-Cola shares will be the basis of the coming economic system. Bitcoin lacks anything resembling intrinsic value. The intrinsic value of a Coca-Cola share is that you will receive a part of the profit of the company.
        npoc 2y ago
        You don't think good money has an intrinsic value as good money?
        constantcrying 2y ago
        Bitcoin is terrible money. It is less private than any bank account. It is significantly slower and pricier than any bank account for transactions. It removes control over money from governments and other institutions (which is by itself a death sentence).
- bodiekane 2y ago
  It's literally just a pilfering of the American public to enrich crypto holders. If you have a lot of something, and you can get the government to buy a lot of it, that's very good for you. Bitcoin at this point is probably running out of retail rubes to buy it to keep the price going and the tether ponzi will eventually break if there isn't new money flowing into the system. Getting the government to buy and hold it would be an amazing coup and let current holders of bitcoin profit handsomely at the expense of the rest of society. It makes no sense in terms of economics, foreign policy, monetary policy, etc. But it makes a ton of sense in terms of "How can I extract the maximum amount of wealth from the public using my political power".
  - netsharc 2y ago
    Yeah, guess why JD Vance is VP: https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-know-about-jd-vances-connections-to-tech-billionaires https://www.npr.org/2024/07/17/g-s1-11654/five-things-to-kno...
- noch 2y ago
  > First time I'm hearing about a "Strategic Bitcoin Reserve" You should definitely know what your government might be involved in, after all government is made up of people many of whom are bitcoiners. Here is a report that's a good primer: "Digital Gold: Evaluating a Strategic Bitcoin Reserve for the United States" https://www.btcpolicy.org/articles/digital-gold-evaluating-a-strategic-bitcoin-reserve-for-the-united-states https://www.btcpolicy.org/articles/digital-gold-evaluating-a... Here's the "Strengthening American Leadership In Digital Financial Technology" executive order that discusses policy direction in the context of cryptocurrency: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/strengthening-american-leadership-in-digital-financial-technology/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/stre...
constantcrying 2y ago
No idea why you get down voted, but it is extremely clear that Bitcoin is useless as a currency. It is many orders of magnitude worse as payment network over existing solution. The one advantage it has, trustless transactions without the double spending problem, is not even desirable for governments. Why would any government want a payment system it can not control. Bitcoin is a literal meme, it's worth is entirely derived from the beliefs of some subculture.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  No, no, Bitcoin's actually incredibly useful for fraud, money laundering, tax avoidance, and other crimes.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    Not really. Monero is far superior on every metric. In the BTC network all transactions are publicly traceable, that makes it far too easy to identify people.
    - tromp 2y ago
      Monero is inferior on several metrics. Such as needing to keep track of all TXO rather than the orders of magnitude smaller set of UTXO. Or having a much more front-loaded emission (40% in first year, with intentionally crippled public miner).
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        But anonymity is your #1 concern when doing fraud, money laundering or criminal transactions.

devoutsalsa 2y ago

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value. Holding Bitcoin as a long term store of value works until people don’t want it anymore. The second it falls out of fashion, you’re Bitcoin horde isn’t even worth the paper it’s not printed on. To those who say Bitcoin is a revolutionary something something and I don’t get it, maybe that’s true. But as I see it, Bitcoin is only worth what it was last traded at, and there’s no way to predict whether or not someone will want to buy it for more than it’s current value. Thats just not an interesting investment to me, and it feels like gambling, so I don’t want to take participate. I hope your Bitcoin goes to the moon. If it does, send me a postcard from Shackleton Crater.

npoc 2y ago
Please explain what intrinsic value is

Matthyze 2y ago

Announcing your plan to soon buy a large amount of bitcoin sounds like a great way to pay more for that amount of bitcoin — right?

lolc 2y ago
They've already bought. Now announcing to pump their portfolio with federal money.