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Aligning Automattic's Sponsored Contributions to WordPress

98 points by dangrossman 2y ago

urda 2y ago
Is there a leading Wordpress fork?
- mattrad 2y ago
  ClassicPress is the only public one with any traction. wordpress.com could be considered a private fork.
throw16180339 2y ago
Sheesh. My 6 year old niece has better control of her emotions than Matt Mullenweg.
- tomcam 2y ago
  And just as strategic. When I asked her for a donation to my FOSS project she looked at me dead in the eye and asked “What’s the Bluey angle?”
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
minimaxir 2y ago
> We’ve made the decision to reallocate resources due to the lawsuits from WP Engine. This legal action diverts significant time and energy that could otherwise be directed toward supporting WordPress’s growth and health. We remain hopeful that WP Engine will reconsider this legal attack, allowing us to refocus our efforts on contributions that benefit the broader WordPress ecosystem. The only reason the lawsuit happened is because Matt started the feud. This is literally the "guy puts stick in own bike wheel then falls off" meme.
- cindycindy 2y ago
  [flagged]
- photomatt 2y ago
  It started because WP Engine was abusing the WordPress and WooCommerce trademarks in a way that was confusing to customers around the world.
  - vinnysgreen 2y ago
    You are the dumbest person in most of the rooms you enter. A judge will express this in more words and flair, but it will mean the same thing.
  - ballfoodsafe 2y ago
    And yet you have never pursued a trademark lawsuit which you clearly believe you would win. Why is that? Nor did you ever mention the trademark until they refused to hand you $32 million and became a cancer which must be eradicated. It's almost like if you had not so loudly and deliberately set out to destroy the company you wouldn't currently be so tied up in this litigation which is apparently such a massive drain on Automattic's resources. But yeah, this is all WPE's fault. For trying to stymie your campaign to destroy them by leveraging laws which exist for exactly this purpose. How dare they. There was just no way to see this coming. Aside: in the last 15 years I have had to explain the difference between .com and .org to hundreds of people. I don't recall a single instance of having to explain that WP Engine is not affiliated with either the project or the commercial hosting company. And now so many parts of .org unexpectedly direct navigation to .com. Remind me again who is brazenly and unfairly profiting off of the WordPress trademark?
    - pachorizons 2y ago
      Unsurprising that Matt never replied to you.
  - Twirrim 2y ago
    I'm curious, are you just surrounded by "Yes men" at work? Do you actually have people who meaningfully criticise you or decisions from your leadership team?
Kye 2y ago
Petty
altairprime 2y ago
Okay, this confirms a narrative I’ve been considering: Matt committed a degree of profit to his investors, and they’re not receiving it, so he’s chosen to attack WPE in order to reduce competition for revenue and drive paying users to his own product. (“My name is Matt Mullenweg and this is my favorite blog on the Citadel”, etc.) This is an obvious next step — until revenue increases or expenses decrease, Mullenweg’s corporation is no longer investing in Wordpress beyond the critical minimum necessary to present as if everything is fine. The “until WPE concedes” bit is just redirecting the underlying cause, which is that Wordpress.com isn’t increasing their growth in revenue year-over-year, which makes VC-style investors uneasy — they want hockey sticks, not dividends. The important thing when dealing with this sort of scenario is not to take the person’s accusations at face value, and not to let them distract you from discussing their own circumstances. If Mullenweg’s moves were intelligent and calculated, then what motivations would this psyops-style propaganda represent? That is the million dollar question that matters here, not the substance of whatever his latest attack is. “Are you so strapped for cash that you can’t afford to pay your lawyers?” is probably the simplest example of the kind of question that needs to be asked of this latest post. “How many months of runway do you have left before the lawsuit bankrupts you?” is the sort of question that the tech press should be asking. Dissecting the surface-level statements feels vengeful and just; discussing the obvious implications and making them the focus of press responses is much more impactful.
- mthoms 2y ago
  Along the same lines, this could be a pre-emptive action to provide cover for some forthcoming layoffs.
  - nchmy 2y ago
    I wonder how the severance packages will compare to the alignment offers... (the 2nd of which may not have ever actually been honoured...)
- photomatt 2y ago
  That's a very shallow assessment of Automattic's business, which has over half a billion in revenue and much of it not from WordPress. You also assume that investor pressure could drive company decisions, which is ridiculous given I vote 84% of the stock. Automattic has infinite runway, we're not a startup stumbling from funding round to funding round.
mthoms 2y ago
Notably, Matt will still personally control what is and isn't allowed to be contributed to WordPress Core. Otherwise, the very first commit should be removing all the personally identifiable information and other telemetry sent back to Matt's personal website (WordPress.org) and WooCommerce.com that isn't properly documented anywhere. [0][1] At the very least, there should be code changes facilitating informed consent. Of course, even though that is in the best interest of WordPress users, Matt Mullenweg won't let that happen. Because, money. [0] https://duanestorey.com/posts/down-the-rabbit-hole-a-deep-look-at-the-wordpress-api https://duanestorey.com/posts/down-the-rabbit-hole-a-deep-lo... [1] https://x.com/SybreWaaijer/status/1875230654054752374 https://x.com/SybreWaaijer/status/1875230654054752374
- keikobadthebad 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mthoms 2y ago
    Frankly, I don't know where you got the idea that someone is being asked to "blow money" from my comment. Removing the telemetry code would be dead simple. I'd be delighted to do it. The actual problem is with getting them to accept the code changes. But I thought that was obvious. I guess not.
    - keikobadthebad 2y ago
      The guy is refusing to spend money on what you think is in "the [best] interests of wordpress users", presumably that is what you think is in your interests, and you're complaining about that. It's a gpl project, if the people complaining about how it is maintained care, they are granted the right to step up and do something about it. For example fork it, either wholesale or a light version with things you don't like stripped. Collectively, users have these rights. I don't think they have any right to expect the guys doing to work to do it for them, or even give the time of day to some leech-only "community" that shows no gratitude or useful contribution, just demands and entitlement, and doing as much as possible to blacken the name of the guy producing the work they are relying on.
kennethallen 2y ago
I'm going to take all of my toys and go home until everyone promises to stop being mean to me.
daft_pink 2y ago
Reality is that Wordpress is not an application for Hacker News techie types who can just create their own whatever. It’s a website appliance where you can have someone design focused apply a design, mash in a few plugins and assign some slightly higher than minimum wage fresh employee to manage your website. We are not the target market for this product.
- Tepix 2y ago
  The wordpress ecosystem is a behemoth. Even it isn't for you and me, it plays a super important role.
  - bookofjoe 2y ago
    Yes. In previous discussions it was noted repeatedly that 40% of websites use WordPress.
    - ballfoodsafe 2y ago
      I always find that metric kind of interesting in that it's only grown less than 1% in the last three or four years. In the preceding period of the same length, it gained 10%. I anticipate this year's numbers to show loss, in no small part due to Matt's dogged contributions.
      - bookofjoe 2y ago
        My sense is that he could well pull the whole house down a là Samson.
- jeanlucas 2y ago
  That's like saying PHP is not good enough for HN. Not everyone here is building an AI based SaaS for YC
  - TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
    It’s definitely an overly broad brush. Usually reinventing every wheel is a waste of time and resources, and that’s why when you need a website, you might reach for WordPress, or Hugo, or Craft, or whatever else. Not everyone wants to spend development time crafting a custom website platform. Unless you’re trying to craft a custom website platform of course. That’s not most businesses.
mrkramer 2y ago
This is one of the most stupidest and toxiest moves ever; imagine Google saying: millions of devs and thousands of companies use Golang and they are not contributing as much as we do so we are going to drastically lower our contributions just to sabotage other devs and companies.
wpinsider 2y ago
Given Mullenweg and Automattic hired a full time ‘Executive Director of WordPress.org, does that mean that Automattic will contribute 5 hours to Wordpress beyond that? Also fascinating that Mullenweg is willing to back away from the WordPress people love, but won’t let others engage to take up the slack. Has he been blocking WPE and others contributions if they don’t line up with his/Automattic’s commercial interests all along? Is there another shoe to drop? If community members submit code to improve core by removing the dependency on .org and allowing users to choose will Mullenweg allow it in?

98 points by dangrossman 2y ago

urda 2y ago

Is there a leading Wordpress fork?

mattrad 2y ago
ClassicPress is the only public one with any traction. wordpress.com could be considered a private fork.

throw16180339 2y ago

Sheesh. My 6 year old niece has better control of her emotions than Matt Mullenweg.

tomcam 2y ago
And just as strategic. When I asked her for a donation to my FOSS project she looked at me dead in the eye and asked “What’s the Bluey angle?”

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

minimaxir 2y ago

> We’ve made the decision to reallocate resources due to the lawsuits from WP Engine. This legal action diverts significant time and energy that could otherwise be directed toward supporting WordPress’s growth and health. We remain hopeful that WP Engine will reconsider this legal attack, allowing us to refocus our efforts on contributions that benefit the broader WordPress ecosystem. The only reason the lawsuit happened is because Matt started the feud. This is literally the "guy puts stick in own bike wheel then falls off" meme.

cindycindy 2y ago
[flagged]
photomatt 2y ago
It started because WP Engine was abusing the WordPress and WooCommerce trademarks in a way that was confusing to customers around the world.
- vinnysgreen 2y ago
  You are the dumbest person in most of the rooms you enter. A judge will express this in more words and flair, but it will mean the same thing.
- ballfoodsafe 2y ago
  And yet you have never pursued a trademark lawsuit which you clearly believe you would win. Why is that? Nor did you ever mention the trademark until they refused to hand you $32 million and became a cancer which must be eradicated. It's almost like if you had not so loudly and deliberately set out to destroy the company you wouldn't currently be so tied up in this litigation which is apparently such a massive drain on Automattic's resources. But yeah, this is all WPE's fault. For trying to stymie your campaign to destroy them by leveraging laws which exist for exactly this purpose. How dare they. There was just no way to see this coming. Aside: in the last 15 years I have had to explain the difference between .com and .org to hundreds of people. I don't recall a single instance of having to explain that WP Engine is not affiliated with either the project or the commercial hosting company. And now so many parts of .org unexpectedly direct navigation to .com. Remind me again who is brazenly and unfairly profiting off of the WordPress trademark?
  - pachorizons 2y ago
    Unsurprising that Matt never replied to you.
- Twirrim 2y ago
  I'm curious, are you just surrounded by "Yes men" at work? Do you actually have people who meaningfully criticise you or decisions from your leadership team?

Kye 2y ago

Petty

altairprime 2y ago

Okay, this confirms a narrative I’ve been considering: Matt committed a degree of profit to his investors, and they’re not receiving it, so he’s chosen to attack WPE in order to reduce competition for revenue and drive paying users to his own product. (“My name is Matt Mullenweg and this is my favorite blog on the Citadel”, etc.) This is an obvious next step — until revenue increases or expenses decrease, Mullenweg’s corporation is no longer investing in Wordpress beyond the critical minimum necessary to present as if everything is fine. The “until WPE concedes” bit is just redirecting the underlying cause, which is that Wordpress.com isn’t increasing their growth in revenue year-over-year, which makes VC-style investors uneasy — they want hockey sticks, not dividends. The important thing when dealing with this sort of scenario is not to take the person’s accusations at face value, and not to let them distract you from discussing their own circumstances. If Mullenweg’s moves were intelligent and calculated, then what motivations would this psyops-style propaganda represent? That is the million dollar question that matters here, not the substance of whatever his latest attack is. “Are you so strapped for cash that you can’t afford to pay your lawyers?” is probably the simplest example of the kind of question that needs to be asked of this latest post. “How many months of runway do you have left before the lawsuit bankrupts you?” is the sort of question that the tech press should be asking. Dissecting the surface-level statements feels vengeful and just; discussing the obvious implications and making them the focus of press responses is much more impactful.

mthoms 2y ago
Along the same lines, this could be a pre-emptive action to provide cover for some forthcoming layoffs.
- nchmy 2y ago
  I wonder how the severance packages will compare to the alignment offers... (the 2nd of which may not have ever actually been honoured...)
photomatt 2y ago
That's a very shallow assessment of Automattic's business, which has over half a billion in revenue and much of it not from WordPress. You also assume that investor pressure could drive company decisions, which is ridiculous given I vote 84% of the stock. Automattic has infinite runway, we're not a startup stumbling from funding round to funding round.

mthoms 2y ago

Notably, Matt will still personally control what is and isn't allowed to be contributed to WordPress Core. Otherwise, the very first commit should be removing all the personally identifiable information and other telemetry sent back to Matt's personal website (WordPress.org) and WooCommerce.com that isn't properly documented anywhere. [0][1] At the very least, there should be code changes facilitating informed consent. Of course, even though that is in the best interest of WordPress users, Matt Mullenweg won't let that happen. Because, money. [0] https://duanestorey.com/posts/down-the-rabbit-hole-a-deep-look-at-the-wordpress-api https://duanestorey.com/posts/down-the-rabbit-hole-a-deep-lo... [1] https://x.com/SybreWaaijer/status/1875230654054752374 https://x.com/SybreWaaijer/status/1875230654054752374

keikobadthebad 2y ago
[flagged]
- mthoms 2y ago
  Frankly, I don't know where you got the idea that someone is being asked to "blow money" from my comment. Removing the telemetry code would be dead simple. I'd be delighted to do it. The actual problem is with getting them to accept the code changes. But I thought that was obvious. I guess not.
  - keikobadthebad 2y ago
    The guy is refusing to spend money on what you think is in "the [best] interests of wordpress users", presumably that is what you think is in your interests, and you're complaining about that. It's a gpl project, if the people complaining about how it is maintained care, they are granted the right to step up and do something about it. For example fork it, either wholesale or a light version with things you don't like stripped. Collectively, users have these rights. I don't think they have any right to expect the guys doing to work to do it for them, or even give the time of day to some leech-only "community" that shows no gratitude or useful contribution, just demands and entitlement, and doing as much as possible to blacken the name of the guy producing the work they are relying on.

kennethallen 2y ago

I'm going to take all of my toys and go home until everyone promises to stop being mean to me.

daft_pink 2y ago

Reality is that Wordpress is not an application for Hacker News techie types who can just create their own whatever. It’s a website appliance where you can have someone design focused apply a design, mash in a few plugins and assign some slightly higher than minimum wage fresh employee to manage your website. We are not the target market for this product.

Tepix 2y ago
The wordpress ecosystem is a behemoth. Even it isn't for you and me, it plays a super important role.
- bookofjoe 2y ago
  Yes. In previous discussions it was noted repeatedly that 40% of websites use WordPress.
  - ballfoodsafe 2y ago
    I always find that metric kind of interesting in that it's only grown less than 1% in the last three or four years. In the preceding period of the same length, it gained 10%. I anticipate this year's numbers to show loss, in no small part due to Matt's dogged contributions.
    - bookofjoe 2y ago
      My sense is that he could well pull the whole house down a là Samson.
jeanlucas 2y ago
That's like saying PHP is not good enough for HN. Not everyone here is building an AI based SaaS for YC
- TheNewsIsHere 2y ago
  It’s definitely an overly broad brush. Usually reinventing every wheel is a waste of time and resources, and that’s why when you need a website, you might reach for WordPress, or Hugo, or Craft, or whatever else. Not everyone wants to spend development time crafting a custom website platform. Unless you’re trying to craft a custom website platform of course. That’s not most businesses.

mrkramer 2y ago

This is one of the most stupidest and toxiest moves ever; imagine Google saying: millions of devs and thousands of companies use Golang and they are not contributing as much as we do so we are going to drastically lower our contributions just to sabotage other devs and companies.

wpinsider 2y ago

Given Mullenweg and Automattic hired a full time ‘Executive Director of WordPress.org, does that mean that Automattic will contribute 5 hours to Wordpress beyond that? Also fascinating that Mullenweg is willing to back away from the WordPress people love, but won’t let others engage to take up the slack. Has he been blocking WPE and others contributions if they don’t line up with his/Automattic’s commercial interests all along? Is there another shoe to drop? If community members submit code to improve core by removing the dependency on .org and allowing users to choose will Mullenweg allow it in?