11 ms·

AI agents run in isolated VMs, but PDFs have been out here running in the open for 30 years!

by tashian 2y ago

miohtama 2y ago
But can your PDF run an AI agent?
- freedomben 2y ago
  Looking forward to a day when you may not have a powerful enough GPU to open a PDF
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  In my opinion the question isn’t so much “if” but rather “when”. When will AI research and hardware capabilities reach a point that it’s practical to embed something like that into a regular document? We’ve already seen proof of concept LLMs embedded into OpenType fonts. I guess the other question is then “what capabilities would these AI agents have?” You’d hope just permission to present within that document. But that depends entirely on what unpatched vulnerabilities are lurking (such as the Microsoft ANSI RCE also featured on the HN front page)
  - btown 2y ago
    For Chrome's PDF renderer, the runtime is V8, so we're literally one (hilarious) line of code away from this glorious future existing today: https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/+/refs/heads/main/fpdfsdk/fpdf_view.cpp#1210 https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/+/refs/heads/main/fpd... > // Use interpreted JS only to avoid RWX pages in our address space. Also, --jitless implies --no-expose-wasm, which reduce exposure since no PDF should contain web assembly. > return "--jitless";
    - Thorrez 2y ago
      You could write an LLM in plain JS, right?
      - btown 2y ago
        Yep, but one without the ability to even JIT down to vectorized CPU commands (to say nothing of GPU connectivity) would be incredibly slow indeed!
- siva7 2y ago
  The first widespread AI Malware will be a historic moment in this century. It will adapt like a real biological virus to its host and we have no cure for this.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    We could unplug all the GPUs.
- Swizec 2y ago
  > But can your PDF run an AI agent? Oh it's so much worse than that. Your font can run an AI agent. Llama.ttf: A font which is also an LLM -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791
  - bawolff 2y ago
    Well a font using a custom experimental shaping library. Your font can't do it normally.
  - belowm 2y ago
    Crazy. Looking forward shipping apps as .ttf instead of docker images.
  - erk__ 2y ago
    You can also play Tetris in a font: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1Drb9Vw9M&t=1370s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1Drb9Vw9M&t=1370s (disclaimer: own work)

AI agents run in isolated VMs, but PDFs have been out here running in the open for 30 years!

miohtama 2y ago

But can your PDF run an AI agent?

freedomben 2y ago
Looking forward to a day when you may not have a powerful enough GPU to open a PDF
hnlmorg 2y ago
In my opinion the question isn’t so much “if” but rather “when”. When will AI research and hardware capabilities reach a point that it’s practical to embed something like that into a regular document? We’ve already seen proof of concept LLMs embedded into OpenType fonts. I guess the other question is then “what capabilities would these AI agents have?” You’d hope just permission to present within that document. But that depends entirely on what unpatched vulnerabilities are lurking (such as the Microsoft ANSI RCE also featured on the HN front page)
- btown 2y ago
  For Chrome's PDF renderer, the runtime is V8, so we're literally one (hilarious) line of code away from this glorious future existing today: https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/+/refs/heads/main/fpdfsdk/fpdf_view.cpp#1210 https://pdfium.googlesource.com/pdfium/+/refs/heads/main/fpd... > // Use interpreted JS only to avoid RWX pages in our address space. Also, --jitless implies --no-expose-wasm, which reduce exposure since no PDF should contain web assembly. > return "--jitless";
  - Thorrez 2y ago
    You could write an LLM in plain JS, right?
    - btown 2y ago
      Yep, but one without the ability to even JIT down to vectorized CPU commands (to say nothing of GPU connectivity) would be incredibly slow indeed!
siva7 2y ago
The first widespread AI Malware will be a historic moment in this century. It will adapt like a real biological virus to its host and we have no cure for this.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  We could unplug all the GPUs.
Swizec 2y ago
> But can your PDF run an AI agent? Oh it's so much worse than that. Your font can run an AI agent. Llama.ttf: A font which is also an LLM -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40766791
- bawolff 2y ago
  Well a font using a custom experimental shaping library. Your font can't do it normally.
- belowm 2y ago
  Crazy. Looking forward shipping apps as .ttf instead of docker images.
- erk__ 2y ago
  You can also play Tetris in a font: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1Drb9Vw9M&t=1370s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1Drb9Vw9M&t=1370s (disclaimer: own work)