8 ms·

Missing out on jobs because of LeetCode

27 points by skarlso 2y ago

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p0w3n3d 2y ago
Good luck!
- skarlso 2y ago
  Thank you! :) Luckily, I'm now happily employed and hopefully for the rest of my life. :D
oaththrowaway 2y ago
I know some people hate take-home assessments, but for me it's a total life saver in interviews. I don't "think" out loud while I'm working, and there's no way in hell I'm doing it nervous while someone is looking over my shoulder. Using Leetcode as a filter is great if you're looking for someone who interviews often, but in my experience it's not a great gauge if someone is a good engineer or not. As a hiring manager we've tried implementing different strategies. On my team, we hired 4-5 engineers doing live coding exercises similar to leetcode, and none of them made it more than 6 months. We switched to a take-home project for the last 3 we've hired and they've all been with us for 2+ years and have been great. Of course with the take home projects you're filtering for people who are willing to take a few hours of personal time to work on something, but over the interview process it seems like it washes out? Of course this is just anecdotal data on a fairly small team, but I hate LeetCode style interviews.
- carlos-menezes 2y ago
  I feel the same. I'd much rather do a take-home than a live coding intervie: it offers a much better representation of how I work daily.
- 7speter 2y ago
  If you’re getting quality hires with take homes, doesn’t that mean that even if theres filtering going on, its still effective to a degree as opposed to being totally arbitrary?
  - oaththrowaway 2y ago
    I would think so, but we'll have 100 people come in and talk about the quality hires they get from LeetCode interviews.
    - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
      A lot of people have a strange sort of amnesia where they forget anything that doesn't support their preconceptions. I've had conversations that go like this: "Our interview process is perfect! We've never had a bad hire." "What about that guy we hired to rewrite our engine? The ex-googler? We had to fire him after a month." "Oh, yeah. I forgot about him."
- mcntsh 2y ago
  Now imagine you are a candidate interviewing with 3 companies and they all give you a take-home assignment and each one takes a weekend to complete.
  - oaththrowaway 2y ago
    Ideally it shouldn't take more than 4 hours, but even then is it that different than traveling to a different city for an onsite day of whiteboard interviews?
    - 2y ago
ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Leetcode is slavery for developers. Shun any company that uses that for interviews because they are cargo culting idiots.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  I don't like leetcode either but you harm your point when you compare it to slavery. You are not compelled to work. If you don't like it, you are free to walk out of the interview room and go on with your life.
  - jacknews 2y ago
    "You are not compelled to work." I'm not the OP, and I agree with you, but actually, you kind of are compelled to work, if you want to eat.
- lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
  It's more like sudoku for accountants.
lapcat 2y ago
> I had no job, I ran on my savings, and the workplace I was interviewing for looked nice. OF COURSE I WAS NERVOUS. 100% this. I've never been nervous on the job, even during a work crisis. But I'm not a stage performer, and I'm super nervous during an audition, where strangers are standing over you, judging you, and you can lose the job if you do any little thing wrong, or even if you don't do anything wrong. That's so vastly different from a workplace situation. Yet a lot of people assume, wrongly, "If they're nervous during the interview, then they can't handle job stress." Ask a firefighter, who runs into burning buildings for a living, to give a speech in front of a crowd of strangers. It's an entirely different kind of stress. Not all stress is the same. Fear of public speaking is very common, regardless of the person's job. The firefighter is trained for and experienced with one type of stress, but not the other. Firefighting is their job, not public speaking. Likewise, programming is my job, not interviewing. I can write code just fine, even if the whole company is metaphorically "on fire" at the moment, but my brain freezes in job interviews. And then an hour later, when the interview is over, I can often easily do the thing they wanted me to do during the interview, because I'm no longer in that specific fearful state. The good news is that I'm now successfully self-employed, and my goal is to never interview for another job the rest of my life. Of course running your own business is stressful, and everything depends on me, but I've demonstrably been able to handle that stress. In a sense, the insane job market forced me to become an entrepreneur. (I'm also getting "older", which is another issue, i.e., age discrimination. It's commonly assumed that programmers get worse with age. Fortunately, my customers don't care how old I am.)
- skarlso 2y ago
  Ah envy you. I hate interviewing. I tried to put myself into positions where I present something. I actually did a LOT of presentations by now and yet every time I’m nervous. I just can’t seem to make it work with my brain. :D
lamp_book 2y ago
LeetCode, concurrency, system design... each contrived in its own way and you can only figure them out by burning good opportunities. Reminds me of the Bridge Keeper in Monty Python's Holy Grail. My tip is just to ruthlessly ask questions because interviewers frequently are not remotely clear as they think they are. I'll be branching off towards a different career path because of this. Tying your employability to passing these tests rather than your accomplishments as a professional is a sucker's game long term.

27 points by skarlso 2y ago

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p0w3n3d 2y ago

Good luck!

skarlso 2y ago
Thank you! :) Luckily, I'm now happily employed and hopefully for the rest of my life. :D

oaththrowaway 2y ago

I know some people hate take-home assessments, but for me it's a total life saver in interviews. I don't "think" out loud while I'm working, and there's no way in hell I'm doing it nervous while someone is looking over my shoulder. Using Leetcode as a filter is great if you're looking for someone who interviews often, but in my experience it's not a great gauge if someone is a good engineer or not. As a hiring manager we've tried implementing different strategies. On my team, we hired 4-5 engineers doing live coding exercises similar to leetcode, and none of them made it more than 6 months. We switched to a take-home project for the last 3 we've hired and they've all been with us for 2+ years and have been great. Of course with the take home projects you're filtering for people who are willing to take a few hours of personal time to work on something, but over the interview process it seems like it washes out? Of course this is just anecdotal data on a fairly small team, but I hate LeetCode style interviews.

carlos-menezes 2y ago
I feel the same. I'd much rather do a take-home than a live coding intervie: it offers a much better representation of how I work daily.
7speter 2y ago
If you’re getting quality hires with take homes, doesn’t that mean that even if theres filtering going on, its still effective to a degree as opposed to being totally arbitrary?
- oaththrowaway 2y ago
  I would think so, but we'll have 100 people come in and talk about the quality hires they get from LeetCode interviews.
  - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
    A lot of people have a strange sort of amnesia where they forget anything that doesn't support their preconceptions. I've had conversations that go like this: "Our interview process is perfect! We've never had a bad hire." "What about that guy we hired to rewrite our engine? The ex-googler? We had to fire him after a month." "Oh, yeah. I forgot about him."
mcntsh 2y ago
Now imagine you are a candidate interviewing with 3 companies and they all give you a take-home assignment and each one takes a weekend to complete.
- oaththrowaway 2y ago
  Ideally it shouldn't take more than 4 hours, but even then is it that different than traveling to a different city for an onsite day of whiteboard interviews?
  - 2y ago

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago

Leetcode is slavery for developers. Shun any company that uses that for interviews because they are cargo culting idiots.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
I don't like leetcode either but you harm your point when you compare it to slavery. You are not compelled to work. If you don't like it, you are free to walk out of the interview room and go on with your life.
- jacknews 2y ago
  "You are not compelled to work." I'm not the OP, and I agree with you, but actually, you kind of are compelled to work, if you want to eat.
lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
It's more like sudoku for accountants.

lapcat 2y ago

> I had no job, I ran on my savings, and the workplace I was interviewing for looked nice. OF COURSE I WAS NERVOUS. 100% this. I've never been nervous on the job, even during a work crisis. But I'm not a stage performer, and I'm super nervous during an audition, where strangers are standing over you, judging you, and you can lose the job if you do any little thing wrong, or even if you don't do anything wrong. That's so vastly different from a workplace situation. Yet a lot of people assume, wrongly, "If they're nervous during the interview, then they can't handle job stress." Ask a firefighter, who runs into burning buildings for a living, to give a speech in front of a crowd of strangers. It's an entirely different kind of stress. Not all stress is the same. Fear of public speaking is very common, regardless of the person's job. The firefighter is trained for and experienced with one type of stress, but not the other. Firefighting is their job, not public speaking. Likewise, programming is my job, not interviewing. I can write code just fine, even if the whole company is metaphorically "on fire" at the moment, but my brain freezes in job interviews. And then an hour later, when the interview is over, I can often easily do the thing they wanted me to do during the interview, because I'm no longer in that specific fearful state. The good news is that I'm now successfully self-employed, and my goal is to never interview for another job the rest of my life. Of course running your own business is stressful, and everything depends on me, but I've demonstrably been able to handle that stress. In a sense, the insane job market forced me to become an entrepreneur. (I'm also getting "older", which is another issue, i.e., age discrimination. It's commonly assumed that programmers get worse with age. Fortunately, my customers don't care how old I am.)

skarlso 2y ago
Ah envy you. I hate interviewing. I tried to put myself into positions where I present something. I actually did a LOT of presentations by now and yet every time I’m nervous. I just can’t seem to make it work with my brain. :D

lamp_book 2y ago

LeetCode, concurrency, system design... each contrived in its own way and you can only figure them out by burning good opportunities. Reminds me of the Bridge Keeper in Monty Python's Holy Grail. My tip is just to ruthlessly ask questions because interviewers frequently are not remotely clear as they think they are. I'll be branching off towards a different career path because of this. Tying your employability to passing these tests rather than your accomplishments as a professional is a sucker's game long term.