10 ms·

It does look like awful lot of gaslighting to paint her as mentally ill. some quick web search showed she is the black sheep of the family. and she seem to exhi

It does look like awful lot of gaslighting to paint her as mentally ill. some quick web search showed she is the black sheep of the family. and she seem to exhibit behaviors r-pe victims commonly do like using sexuality to empower themselves (having an active onl-fans account) and such. Just like in Lavinia Woodward's case. Success sometimes gives you this kind of privilege to bypass justice. The dupe thread seems to have been flagged and this thread might be flagged as well. Not hard to see what is going on tbh.

tyleo 2y ago
I was seeing this on the front page of HN mere moments ago and now it’s gone.
- joseppudev 2y ago
  This is democracy and freedom we get these days. and yup... the thread is gone.
  - tyleo 2y ago
    Cheers, at least we have Stimulation Clicker on the front page https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611536
  - martin-t 2y ago
    I am increasingly convinced we need to separate content storage from recommendation algorithms. When an organization does both, it has perverse incentives such as maximizing add-profit or user-engagement by building echo chambers instead of doing what benefits the users - such as maximizing truth-seeking and getting an accurate picture of opinions among the general population.
    - joseppudev 2y ago
      Agreed. I am quite pessimistic about what can be achieved though.
  - dang 2y ago
    There's nothing new in the HN community functioning this way. In fact, it's because the HN community functions this way that the site exists at all; otherwise it would have long ago turned into just another current affairs or celebrity gossip page.
    - joseppudev 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 2y ago
        I downvoted a few of them, and so did lots of other users—correctly so, as your comments (not just in this thread) have often been unsubstantive and/or flamebait. Can you please not post like that? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        joseppudev 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - spockswrench 2y ago
        I upvoted your comment, but my upvotes are censored so sadly it didn't impact your score. This site is completely a propaganda arm for YC and their interests. The mod even admitted that "the algorithm" doesn't allow my upvotes to show: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639821
        joseppudev 2y ago
        "voting algorithm" is such a powerful phrase. amazing.
        spockswrench 2y ago
        Yeah, what kind of "algorithm" makes your upvotes not work? Dang also went through and downvoted every comment I have to oblivion. I had 30+ karma points, now down to zero. This site is absolute trash.
- 4oo4 2y ago
  Unlike other stories critical of Sam Altman, it's very suspicious the way this is so quickly and systematically downvoted and flagged every single time it's posted. This happened the last time this was posted too. Sam Altman deserves the right to defend himself in court as does Ann to tell her story (who personally I believe). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37785072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37785072 The good news is that with the lawsuit it will be in the news more and much harder to silence, maybe at some point we can have a proper discussion about it on HN without people (or more likely bots) trying to memoryhole it every single time.
  - leotravis10 2y ago
    Amen, hopefully someday we can get a proper civil discussion on this. Shame on the HN mods and higher ups really for trying to censor this.
    - krapp 2y ago
      I wouldn't even blame it on the mods and higher ups. There are enough people here invested in Sam Altman either through YC or AI that mutually aligned interests alone will cause a story like this to get squashed, every time. No conspiracy needed. And that doesn't even take into account the number of people who consider all discussions of this kind to be categorically off topic, and would flag it on principle regardless of the context.
      - 4oo4 2y ago
        If you do a search for the word rape, there are tons of discussions about it, so it's definitely not categorically off topic. I'm going to email hn@ycombinator.com per the FAQ since the way this keeps happening feels abusive and against the spirit of HN.
        krapp 2y ago
        As far as I know, flags come from the community, not the mods. Hacker News is designed so that it doesn't even take many flags to affect a thread. You can complain to the mods all you like but there's nothing you can do about the zeitgeist. The mods also won't change their own policies.
- dang 2y ago
  That's what happens when upvotes put a story on the front page and then user flags take it off the front page. This is standard stuff. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639323 and the other links there.
  - DoctorOetker 2y ago
    Just out of curiosity if more people downvote / individual flag it than upvote it, then how did it rise to the front page to start with? I recall multiple HN Epstein discussions that didn't get flagged (in the sense of Net Flagged status assignment by HN, not talking about individual acts of individual flagging) It would really help the discourse if HN used separate terms for the button for users to individually cast a flag, and the [flagged] marking by HN: a suggestion would be to give the latter a different word like [perverse], as the literal meaning of perverse come from Latin "per" (away) "vertere" (to turn), i.e. "turned away" or "to turn a blind eye" as one would say in English. That would seem more apt as it describes what is done, and allows HN commenters to talk about the difference between individual acts of users pressing the "flag" button versus HN mapping that to an attention modulating action. For example discussions about the method of mapping upvotes, views, flaggings, and their relative timing distributions, onto the either "attended" or "perverse" status.
    - dang 2y ago
      I'm afraid I don't understand that second part of your comment - it's not clear to me what distinction you're wanting to appear in the UI. But I can answer this part: > if more people downvote / individual flag it than upvote it, then how did it rise to the front page to start with? It's because most of the flags only happen later. Upvotes get a post onto the frontpage, then other users see it on the frontpage and think "wtf? that doesn't belong on HN" and flag it. This is especially common with sensational or outrageous stories, since those qualities inevitably attract upvotes—but then later they attract flags. You can think of flags as a bit like an immune system in that sense.
cybercity 2y ago
It is not the rape that traumatizes the victims it is the bystanders not stopping it. And yes everyone knows what is going on. Parents not protecting their children is the deepest form of damage.
martin-t 2y ago
Honest question: why do you censor the word rape? I skimmed HN's FAQ and I see no mention of forbidden topics or words and it seems the mod team prides itself on openness (does not make it true, i know). Do you believe your comment or your account would face negative consequences for using that word?
- joseppudev 2y ago
  Internet is getting worse every day, who knows what kind of censorship they are or will be using. Maybe it isn't necessary to censor the word here but still good as kind of a trigger discipline I guess.
  - martin-t 2y ago
    Why would it work though? If somebody wants to actually detect and censor talking about rape, they certainly have the technological capability to also censor all the intentional misspellings. IMO, the only case when this works is when an organization is censoring it because of compliance but intentionally does a minimal effort at it.
- dang 2y ago
  There's no problem with plain language about rape or other topics on HN. Plain language is preferable. The issue here is not whether people are allowed to use specific words, it's whether the story gratifies intellectual curiosity, as the site guidelines require for a story to be on topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). The community verdict, arrived at via the standard tug-of-war between upvotes and flags, is that it does not. Some users are unhappy with that and are seeing it not as a community verdict, but as suspicious behavior by the mods. I think the solution is for us to explain what is happening, what users did and what we did, and what the underlying principles are. If past experience is any guide, this won't satisfy all of the suspicions, but it will help with some of them, and it will satisfy the bulk of the community, which is the most that can be hoped for.
raxxor 2y ago
That is a worrying amount of conjecture about something nobody knows anything about in any direction.

tyleo 2y ago

I was seeing this on the front page of HN mere moments ago and now it’s gone.

joseppudev 2y ago
This is democracy and freedom we get these days. and yup... the thread is gone.
- tyleo 2y ago
  Cheers, at least we have Stimulation Clicker on the front page https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611536
- martin-t 2y ago
  I am increasingly convinced we need to separate content storage from recommendation algorithms. When an organization does both, it has perverse incentives such as maximizing add-profit or user-engagement by building echo chambers instead of doing what benefits the users - such as maximizing truth-seeking and getting an accurate picture of opinions among the general population.
  - joseppudev 2y ago
    Agreed. I am quite pessimistic about what can be achieved though.
- dang 2y ago
  There's nothing new in the HN community functioning this way. In fact, it's because the HN community functions this way that the site exists at all; otherwise it would have long ago turned into just another current affairs or celebrity gossip page.
  - joseppudev 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 2y ago
      I downvoted a few of them, and so did lots of other users—correctly so, as your comments (not just in this thread) have often been unsubstantive and/or flamebait. Can you please not post like that? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - joseppudev 2y ago
        [flagged]
    - spockswrench 2y ago
      I upvoted your comment, but my upvotes are censored so sadly it didn't impact your score. This site is completely a propaganda arm for YC and their interests. The mod even admitted that "the algorithm" doesn't allow my upvotes to show: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639821
      - joseppudev 2y ago
        "voting algorithm" is such a powerful phrase. amazing.
        spockswrench 2y ago
        Yeah, what kind of "algorithm" makes your upvotes not work? Dang also went through and downvoted every comment I have to oblivion. I had 30+ karma points, now down to zero. This site is absolute trash.
4oo4 2y ago
Unlike other stories critical of Sam Altman, it's very suspicious the way this is so quickly and systematically downvoted and flagged every single time it's posted. This happened the last time this was posted too. Sam Altman deserves the right to defend himself in court as does Ann to tell her story (who personally I believe). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37785072 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37785072 The good news is that with the lawsuit it will be in the news more and much harder to silence, maybe at some point we can have a proper discussion about it on HN without people (or more likely bots) trying to memoryhole it every single time.
- leotravis10 2y ago
  Amen, hopefully someday we can get a proper civil discussion on this. Shame on the HN mods and higher ups really for trying to censor this.
  - krapp 2y ago
    I wouldn't even blame it on the mods and higher ups. There are enough people here invested in Sam Altman either through YC or AI that mutually aligned interests alone will cause a story like this to get squashed, every time. No conspiracy needed. And that doesn't even take into account the number of people who consider all discussions of this kind to be categorically off topic, and would flag it on principle regardless of the context.
    - 4oo4 2y ago
      If you do a search for the word rape, there are tons of discussions about it, so it's definitely not categorically off topic. I'm going to email hn@ycombinator.com per the FAQ since the way this keeps happening feels abusive and against the spirit of HN.
      - krapp 2y ago
        As far as I know, flags come from the community, not the mods. Hacker News is designed so that it doesn't even take many flags to affect a thread. You can complain to the mods all you like but there's nothing you can do about the zeitgeist. The mods also won't change their own policies.
dang 2y ago
That's what happens when upvotes put a story on the front page and then user flags take it off the front page. This is standard stuff. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42639323 and the other links there.
- DoctorOetker 2y ago
  Just out of curiosity if more people downvote / individual flag it than upvote it, then how did it rise to the front page to start with? I recall multiple HN Epstein discussions that didn't get flagged (in the sense of Net Flagged status assignment by HN, not talking about individual acts of individual flagging) It would really help the discourse if HN used separate terms for the button for users to individually cast a flag, and the [flagged] marking by HN: a suggestion would be to give the latter a different word like [perverse], as the literal meaning of perverse come from Latin "per" (away) "vertere" (to turn), i.e. "turned away" or "to turn a blind eye" as one would say in English. That would seem more apt as it describes what is done, and allows HN commenters to talk about the difference between individual acts of users pressing the "flag" button versus HN mapping that to an attention modulating action. For example discussions about the method of mapping upvotes, views, flaggings, and their relative timing distributions, onto the either "attended" or "perverse" status.
  - dang 2y ago
    I'm afraid I don't understand that second part of your comment - it's not clear to me what distinction you're wanting to appear in the UI. But I can answer this part: > if more people downvote / individual flag it than upvote it, then how did it rise to the front page to start with? It's because most of the flags only happen later. Upvotes get a post onto the frontpage, then other users see it on the frontpage and think "wtf? that doesn't belong on HN" and flag it. This is especially common with sensational or outrageous stories, since those qualities inevitably attract upvotes—but then later they attract flags. You can think of flags as a bit like an immune system in that sense.

cybercity 2y ago

It is not the rape that traumatizes the victims it is the bystanders not stopping it. And yes everyone knows what is going on. Parents not protecting their children is the deepest form of damage.

martin-t 2y ago

Honest question: why do you censor the word rape? I skimmed HN's FAQ and I see no mention of forbidden topics or words and it seems the mod team prides itself on openness (does not make it true, i know). Do you believe your comment or your account would face negative consequences for using that word?

joseppudev 2y ago
Internet is getting worse every day, who knows what kind of censorship they are or will be using. Maybe it isn't necessary to censor the word here but still good as kind of a trigger discipline I guess.
- martin-t 2y ago
  Why would it work though? If somebody wants to actually detect and censor talking about rape, they certainly have the technological capability to also censor all the intentional misspellings. IMO, the only case when this works is when an organization is censoring it because of compliance but intentionally does a minimal effort at it.
dang 2y ago
There's no problem with plain language about rape or other topics on HN. Plain language is preferable. The issue here is not whether people are allowed to use specific words, it's whether the story gratifies intellectual curiosity, as the site guidelines require for a story to be on topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). The community verdict, arrived at via the standard tug-of-war between upvotes and flags, is that it does not. Some users are unhappy with that and are seeing it not as a community verdict, but as suspicious behavior by the mods. I think the solution is for us to explain what is happening, what users did and what we did, and what the underlying principles are. If past experience is any guide, this won't satisfy all of the suspicions, but it will help with some of them, and it will satisfy the bulk of the community, which is the most that can be hoped for.

raxxor 2y ago

That is a worrying amount of conjecture about something nobody knows anything about in any direction.