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Jensen Huang keynote at CES 2025 [video]
- behnamoh 2y agoI liked this part: "one small step at a time, and one giant leap, together." I didn't like this part: 5090 for $2000, about $500 more than 4090 when it was announced. They didn't mention VRAM amount though, and I doubt it's more than 24GB. If Apple M4 Ultra gets close to 1.8 TB/s bandwidth of 5090, it'll crush GeForce once and for all (and for good). Also nitpick: the opening video said tokens are responsible for all AI, but that only applies to a subset of AI models...
- ksec 2y agoFor what 5090 is offering with 32GB RAM I thought it is a pretty decent price comparatively to 4090. I thought the whole lineup is really well priced.
- arresin 2y agoGood for image generation, inadequate for local llms (on its own).
- jsheard 2y agoIt's 32GB, that was leaked well before the event. > If Apple M4 Ultra gets close to 1.8 TB/s bandwidth of 5090 If past trends hold (Ultra = 2x Max) it'll be around 1.1 TB/s, so closer to the 4090.
- behnamoh 2y agoJensen didn't talk about it. Maybe he knows it's embarrassingly low. Everyone knows nvidia won't give us more VRAM to avoid cannibalizing their enterprise products.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- aseipp 2y agoThe official specs for the 5090 have been out for days on nvidia.com, and they explicitly state it's 32GB of GDDR7 with a 512-bit bus, for a total of 1.8TB/s of bandwidth.
- behnamoh 2y ago32GB is still not a lot.
- BryanLegend 2y ago"640k should be enough for anybody"
- Jedd 2y agoThis feels like a weird complaint, given you started by saying it was 24GB, and then argued that the person who told you it was actually 32GB was making that up.
- behnamoh 2y agoLooks like Nvidia did a simple calculation: 32GB (for 5090) / 24GB (for 4090) ≃ 1.33 Then multiply 4090's price by that: $1500 × 1.33 ≃ $2000 All else equal, this means that price per GB of VRAM stayed the same. But in reality, other things improved too (like the bandwidth) which I appreciate. I just think that for home AI use, 32GB isn't that helpful. In my experience and especially for agents, models at 32B parameters just start to be useful. Below that, they're useful only for simple tasks.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Jedd 2y ago
- qingcharles 2y agoIt makes for a hard choice. M4 Ultra with say 128GB of RAM vs ... 2 x 5090 with 64GB of RAM for about the same price? More tokens/sec on the dual 5090, but way bigger model on the M4. Plus the dual 5090 might trip your breakers.
- smallmancontrov 2y agoIf anyone in this thread had watched the linked video or even read a summary, they ought to be at least talking about the DIGITS announcement. 128GB of VRAM for $3000. Slow? Yes. It isn't meant to compete with the datacenter chips, it's just a way to stop the embarrassment of being beaten at HPC workstations by apple, but it does the job.
- toshinoriyagi 2y agoedit: 32GB is confirmed here https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/50-series/ https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/50-serie... Supposedly, this image of a Inno3D 5090 box leaked, revealing 32GB of VRAM. It seems like the 5090 will be more of a true halo product, given the pricing of the other cards. https://www.techpowerup.com/330538/first-nvidia-geforce-rtx-5090-gpu-with-32-gb-gddr7-memory-leaks-ahead-of-ces-keynote https://www.techpowerup.com/330538/first-nvidia-geforce-rtx-...
- headcanon 2y agoMarket price for a 4090 is ~$2700 today: https://stockx.com/nvidia-founders-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-graphics-card-900-1g136-2530-000 https://stockx.com/nvidia-founders-geforce-rtx-4090-24gb-gra... When you have a retail price so far below "street" price, it just makes it harder to obtain and scalpers take a bigger cut. Raising the price to something more normal at least gives you more of a chance at the big-box store.
- heyoni 2y agoOr scalpers won’t be dissuaded and street price for a 5090 will be $3200 or more. $1500 was already an insane price tag for scalpers to pay but they did it anyways.
- pertymcpert 2y agoThe scalpers are trying to arbitrage the difference in price between the prices bought directly from suppliers and those on the open secondary market. increasing the retail price doesn't increase the price on the secondary market, it just lowers the margin of scalpers.
- heyoni 2y agoGreat, so nothing changes.
- geokon 2y agovery naiive question... But why have a retail price at all and not just auction off batches to retailers (say 10 000 card at a time) Let the market set the price and only control how many cards you auction and when
- gbin 2y agoBeing able to decide a price and who you sell your product to is a huge leverage. Nvidia can go to a retailer selling something they don't like to be side by side on a shelf, hey ditch this and we will make you a price. It is never that overt of course and it can play geopolitically too, hey government you want chips? We have chips and it would be a shame if the market grabs them before you, BTW don't forget my tax cut.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- magicalhippo 2y agoAMD barely mentioned their next-gen GPUs, NVIDIA came out swinging right from the start. AMD announced two new models which by their own cryptic slide wouldn't even compete with their current top-end. Then NVIDIA came and announced a 4090-performance GPU for $549... If that's not just hot hair from NVIDIA, I totally get the business decision from AMD but man, would love some more competition in the higher end.
- ekianjo 2y ago> Then NVIDIA came and announced a 4090-performance GPU for $549... That's obviously a marketing hoax. Spray DLSS and other tricks and you can make this kind of claims while the raw power is clearly on the side of the 4090
- behnamoh 2y agoAMD has strategically decided to abandon the enthusiasts market [0]. Really sad that nvidia's monopoly has got solidified even further. That's one of the reasons I contribute to Apple's MLX instead of CUDA. 0: https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/amd-announces-new-radeon-rx-9070-xt-and-rx-9070-graphics-cards-at-ces-2025 https://www.techradar.com/computing/gpu/amd-announces-new-ra... Update: typical HN behavior. someone is downvoting all my comments one by one...
- jiggawatts 2y agoSomeone with a lot of NVIDIA shares, no doubt…
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- seaofliberty 2y ago[flagged]
- behnamoh 2y agoHe tried so much to look funny but it didn't look good on him. And at one point he said 4090 is like taking home an equivalent of a $10,000 PC, and he expected the crowd to clap, but no one, literally no one, clapped. Because everyone knows GeForce prices have been monopoly prices for years and 4090 is intentionally crippled by nvidia drivers to be less capable than it really is (see George Hotz in-depth analysis).
- seaofliberty 2y agoHaha. So true. I am writing a program to draw facial geometry and similarity between him and Jackie Chan is too good to be true.
- tim333 2y agoJensen has noticed also https://www.pcgamer.com/jensen-huang-thinks-jackie-chan-would-play-him-best-in-a-biopic-but-he-would-do-his-own-stunts/ https://www.pcgamer.com/jensen-huang-thinks-jackie-chan-woul...
- HeatrayEnjoyer 2y agoHow is that relevant to anything at all?
- Jach 2y agoTo me it seemed like he tried to justify its price as if it were a small part of a $10k setup with lots of RGB lighting but for some reason mainly for watching movies. No one has one just for watching movies, and it's likely more than the rest of the gaming PC build combined. Monitor possibly included.
- moogly 2y agoSomeone should tell Mr. Huang that it's not 20 years ago and that their products now cost 2x the amount of all other components in that "pc entertainment system control center" combined. He seems to not know, out-of-touch billionaire as he is.
- blitzar 2y ago[flagged]
- beernet 2y agoNot sure about that, but resentfulness, arrogance and hubris are more present than ever on HN.
- tim333 2y agoI'm not sure what you mean by that? Jensen seemed quite normal in his presentation. Some of the prerecorded video was a bit iffy - "this is how intelligence is made" totally ignoring natural intelligence. Coked up behaviour is more like Will Smith punching Chris Rock. I thought the synthetic data generation for self driving was interesting https://youtu.be/k82RwXqZHY8?t=4369 https://youtu.be/k82RwXqZHY8?t=4369 I could have used something like that myself for learning flying.
- ksec 2y agoI actually got a lot more upbeat about the potential of AI after watching this keynote more so than any other demonstration or presentation. Blackwell is still based on N4, a derivative of 5nm. We know we will have N3 GPU next year, and they should be working with TSMC on capacity planning for N2. Currently Blackwell is pretty much limited by capacity of either TSMC, HBM or packaging. And unless the AI hype dies off soon ( which I doubt will happen ), we should still have at least another 5 years of these GPU improvements. We will have another 5 - 10x performance increase. And they have foreshadowed their PC entry with MediaTek Partnership. ( I wonder why they dont just acquired Mediatek ) and may be even Smartphone or Tablet with Geforce GPU IP. The future is exciting.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoThe same industry opposition that killed the ARM acquisition would kill a mediatek acquisition.
- satellite2 2y agoThe acquisition of ARM would have put Nvidia in the position of being able to impose to competitors uncompetitive restrictions on a quasi monopolistic market. Is it the case with MediaTek?
- AlotOfReading 2y agoMediatek is the largest smartphone SoC manufacturer, so yes. They're a supplier for Apple and the biggest competitor to Qualcomm, the two companies that were the most vocal in opposing the ARM acquisition.
- brookst 2y agoMy guess is mediatek’s margins are much lower so an acquisition would tank Nvidia’s stock price by leading to lower returns. That and/or not wanting the distraction of operating mediatek’s many businesses that aren’t aligned to Nvidia core competence.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
- contingencies 2y agoAs someone who has gone pretty deep in to robotics over the last 9 years I skipped right to the physical AI portion, and wasn't impressed. This has been stated on HN in most robotics threads, but the core of what they show, once again, is content generation, a feature largely looking for an application. The main application discussed is training data synthesis. While there is value in this for very specific use cases it's still lipstick ("look it works! wow AI!") on a pig (ie. non-deterministic system being placed in a critical operations process). This embodies one of the most fallacious, generally unspoken assumptions in AI and robotics today - that it is desirable to deal with the real world in an unstructured manner using fuzzy, vendor-linked, unauditable, shifting sand AI building blocks. This assumption can make sense for driving and other relatively uncontrolled environments with immovable infrastructure and vast cultural, capital and paradigm investments demanding complex multi-sensor synthesis and rapid decision making based on environmental context based on prior training, but it makes very little sense for industrial, construction, agricultural, rural, etc. Industrial is traditionally all about understanding the problem or breaking it in to unit operations, design, fabricate and control the environment to optimize the process for each of those in sequence, and thus lowering the cost and increasing the throughput. NVidia further wants us to believe we should buy three products from them: an embedded system ("nano"), a general purpose robotic system ("super") and something more computationally expensive for simulation-type applications ("ultra"). They claim (with apparently no need to proffer evidence whatsoever) that "all robotics" companies need these "three computers". I've got news for you: we don't, this is a fantasy, and limited if any value add will result from what amounts to yet another amorphous simulation, integration and modeling platform based on broken vendor assumptions. Ask anyone experienced in industrial, they'll agree. The industrial vendor space is somewhat broken and rife with all sorts of dodgy things that wouldn't fly in other sectors, but NVidia simply ain't gonna fix it with their current take, which for me lands somewhere between wishful thinking and downright duplicitous. As for "digital twins", most industrial systems are much like software systems: emergent, cobbled together from multiple poor and broken individual implementations, sharing state across disparate models, each based on poorly or undocumented design assumptions. This means their view of self-state, or "digital twin", is usually functionally fallacious. Where "digital twins" can truly add value is in areas like functional safety, where if you design things correctly you avoid being mired in potentially lethally disastrous emergent states from interdependent subsystems that were not considered at subsystem design, maintenance or upgrade time because a non-exhaustive, insufficiently formal and deterministic approach was used in system design and specification. This very real value however hinges on the value being delivered at design time, before implementation, which means you're not going to be buying 10,000 NVidia chips, but most likely zero. So my 2c is the Physical AI portion is basically a poorly founded forward-looking application sketch from what amounts to a professional salesman in a shiny black crocodile jacket at a purchased high-viz keynote. Perhaps the other segments had more weight.
- dang 2y agoRelated ongoing thread: Ask HN: Pull the curtain back on Nvidia's CES keynote please - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42670808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42670808 - Jan 2025 (2 comments)
- sliken 2y agoThe Nvidia Project Digits looked rather interesting. Much like a Apple studio ultra. 2 dies, "high" bandwidth unified memory, 20 cores, tiny mac mini sized case, and 2 SFP+ for 2 connectX ports (unsure if that's IB or ethernet). Claim it will be quite good at AI (1 Tflop of fp4), but sadly don't mention the memory bandwidth. It's somewhere in the range of awesome to terrible depending on the bandwidth.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoAm looking forward to hearing about this in the next few months. Apple has been super late in updating the macstudio, and even the old models are still super expensive, even used.
- teleforce 2y agoPrevious HN post on Project Digits (494 comments) [1]. [1] Nvidia's Project Digits is a 'personal AI supercomputer' https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42619139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42619139