7 ms·

Apple also squandered maps ... until they didn't.

nxobject 2y ago
I agree. I think we believe that Apple's days of long-term skunkworks development is over... I don't think it's as dramatic as, say, the years since the PA Semi acquisition, or the "secret" Intel port, but they do some long-term planning. (Apple Originals, their production house, is also an example. A huge bank of original prestige TV, subsidized by iPhones... they're just still finding a way to market it.)
knowaveragejoe 2y ago
Years ago I remember a detailed comparison of Apple and Google maps, showing a lot of flaws with Apple Maps around contrast, lack of detail, misleading iconography, and other issues. Has it improved that much? Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?
- astrange 2y ago
  That's Justin O'Beirne's site. It has mostly improved but he wasn't really that negative on it. He just used to work there so he was being extra critical since he knew them. On the contrary he often seemed undeservedly uncritical when he talked about Google, like going "wow this is so detailed, they must be super geniuses who did this with computers" about something like POI locations they'd actually done by hiring a ton of contractors to do by hand.
  - jobeirne1 2y ago
    [dead]
- jeffbee 2y ago
  It still sucks. No amount of fancier graphics can make up for their lack of ground truth in terms of opened and closed businesses. I just spot-checked the newest cafe in my neighborhood, which opened 3 weeks ago, and it's still not present on Apple Maps, and another place that closed months ago remains on Apple Maps. It is a demonstration of the fact that you can abuse your monopoly to push a third-rate product on 10% of your users.
  - jiehong 2y ago
    I think businesses update Google maps, but don’t care for Apple Maps, and it leads to this state.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      Google Maps does seem to be more complete with respect to businesses although I prefer Apple Maps for in-car navigation. OSM has both way beat with respect to hiking trails and the like.
    - ValentineC 2y ago
      I submitted an address update for a hackerspace to Apple Maps last week, which only got the business marked as "permanently closed". Whichever firm Apple's contracting out to review Apple Maps reports isn't doing a good job.
      - marxisttemp 2y ago
        In your other comment [0] you mentioned you also updated the name and location of the business. I’ve never had a single issue with Maps review and I find my corrections are usually accepted in under a week. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611345
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Big business hours have always been reliable for me in Apple Maps. I always call small businesses to ensure they are open. Why trust a small business operator to update Google/Apple in real time when I can spend 20 seconds to press the listed phone number and confirm it?
    - jeffbee 2y ago
      And you would find the business's phone number on Google I assume, because the business I mentioned is simply not present on Apple Maps.
    - 2y ago
plonq 2y ago
My hypothesis is that certain products need users and feedback to be good. Maps is one of those, hence why they had to release it in a ‘bad’ state. Apple AI I think is another such product.
ragazzina 2y ago
Or Siri.. no wait.
- ghaff 2y ago
  Though, in fairness, I don't find any of the voice assistants very useful. Siri is probably not quite as good as Alexa though. I mostly care more about Siri because I use CarPlay when driving.
ValentineC 2y ago
Apple needs to review whichever firm they outsourced review of Maps locations to, because my report got my local hackerspace marked "permanently closed" when all I did was correct the address, map pointer, and capitalisation of the name.
- marxisttemp 2y ago
  I haven’t had any issues with the Maps review. Seems like perhaps you submitted a change that was normalized as an entirely new business due to having a different address, location and name. Have you tried to zoom in and see if there’s a new marker with the info you submitted? You can imagine, if a business has changed its address, location, and name, that users would appreciate a “Closed” pin for the previous name and location instead of wondering what happened to the business that used to be there.
  - ValentineC 2y ago
    > * Seems like perhaps you submitted a change that was normalized as an entirely new business due to having a different address, location and name. Have you tried to zoom in and see if there’s a new marker with the info you submitted?* Nope, no new marker at all.
zimpenfish 2y ago
I wish they'd sort out the rendering of road names (and this isn't specific to Apple, mind) - they're still seemingly stuck in the olden times rules for rendering street names ("only put a road name if the road is wide enough and only every N inches and starting at M inches from a junction") rather than "can we put a road name on this road that's visible on screen without it going over something else?" which would be 500% more useful. e.g. https://imgur.com/a/1Y7HviK https://imgur.com/a/1Y7HviK - what rules govern this half-arsed speckling of road names?
eviks 2y ago
They still "did"
cageface 2y ago
Depends on where you live. In SE Asia it's useless.

I agree. I think we believe that Apple's days of long-term skunkworks development is over... I don't think it's as dramatic as, say, the years since the PA Semi acquisition, or the "secret" Intel port, but they do some long-term planning. (Apple Originals, their production house, is also an example. A huge bank of original prestige TV, subsidized by iPhones... they're just still finding a way to market it.)

knowaveragejoe 2y ago

Years ago I remember a detailed comparison of Apple and Google maps, showing a lot of flaws with Apple Maps around contrast, lack of detail, misleading iconography, and other issues. Has it improved that much? Does anyone remember what I'm talking about?

astrange 2y ago
That's Justin O'Beirne's site. It has mostly improved but he wasn't really that negative on it. He just used to work there so he was being extra critical since he knew them. On the contrary he often seemed undeservedly uncritical when he talked about Google, like going "wow this is so detailed, they must be super geniuses who did this with computers" about something like POI locations they'd actually done by hiring a ton of contractors to do by hand.
- jobeirne1 2y ago
  [dead]
jeffbee 2y ago
It still sucks. No amount of fancier graphics can make up for their lack of ground truth in terms of opened and closed businesses. I just spot-checked the newest cafe in my neighborhood, which opened 3 weeks ago, and it's still not present on Apple Maps, and another place that closed months ago remains on Apple Maps. It is a demonstration of the fact that you can abuse your monopoly to push a third-rate product on 10% of your users.
- jiehong 2y ago
  I think businesses update Google maps, but don’t care for Apple Maps, and it leads to this state.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Google Maps does seem to be more complete with respect to businesses although I prefer Apple Maps for in-car navigation. OSM has both way beat with respect to hiking trails and the like.
  - ValentineC 2y ago
    I submitted an address update for a hackerspace to Apple Maps last week, which only got the business marked as "permanently closed". Whichever firm Apple's contracting out to review Apple Maps reports isn't doing a good job.
    - marxisttemp 2y ago
      In your other comment [0] you mentioned you also updated the name and location of the business. I’ve never had a single issue with Maps review and I find my corrections are usually accepted in under a week. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42611345
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Big business hours have always been reliable for me in Apple Maps. I always call small businesses to ensure they are open. Why trust a small business operator to update Google/Apple in real time when I can spend 20 seconds to press the listed phone number and confirm it?
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    And you would find the business's phone number on Google I assume, because the business I mentioned is simply not present on Apple Maps.
  - 2y ago

plonq 2y ago

My hypothesis is that certain products need users and feedback to be good. Maps is one of those, hence why they had to release it in a ‘bad’ state. Apple AI I think is another such product.

ragazzina 2y ago

Or Siri.. no wait.

ghaff 2y ago
Though, in fairness, I don't find any of the voice assistants very useful. Siri is probably not quite as good as Alexa though. I mostly care more about Siri because I use CarPlay when driving.

ValentineC 2y ago

Apple needs to review whichever firm they outsourced review of Maps locations to, because my report got my local hackerspace marked "permanently closed" when all I did was correct the address, map pointer, and capitalisation of the name.

marxisttemp 2y ago
I haven’t had any issues with the Maps review. Seems like perhaps you submitted a change that was normalized as an entirely new business due to having a different address, location and name. Have you tried to zoom in and see if there’s a new marker with the info you submitted? You can imagine, if a business has changed its address, location, and name, that users would appreciate a “Closed” pin for the previous name and location instead of wondering what happened to the business that used to be there.
- ValentineC 2y ago
  > * Seems like perhaps you submitted a change that was normalized as an entirely new business due to having a different address, location and name. Have you tried to zoom in and see if there’s a new marker with the info you submitted?* Nope, no new marker at all.

zimpenfish 2y ago

I wish they'd sort out the rendering of road names (and this isn't specific to Apple, mind) - they're still seemingly stuck in the olden times rules for rendering street names ("only put a road name if the road is wide enough and only every N inches and starting at M inches from a junction") rather than "can we put a road name on this road that's visible on screen without it going over something else?" which would be 500% more useful. e.g. https://imgur.com/a/1Y7HviK https://imgur.com/a/1Y7HviK - what rules govern this half-arsed speckling of road names?

eviks 2y ago

They still "did"

cageface 2y ago

Depends on where you live. In SE Asia it's useless.