8 ms·

A new model of school in Sweden

36 points by Misha_B 14y ago

Misha_B 14y ago
Looks like it's from 2008. I'll be happy to hear from anyone who has a closer experience with the Kunskapsskolan.
- dwerthen 14y ago
  I actually went to Kunskapsskolan as the equivalent of a High School student. Graduated in 2005. It work out very well for me, the freedom to go about the curriculum at my own pace suited me perfectly. The experience of going there was very much like what you would find at a university. The school demanded a very high level of motivation and discipline. And this makes it problematic, since quite a lot of students at that age were ill prepared to face that. I might be hesitant to say that this reform has worked out well for Sweden as a whole, as I think for-profit entities in charge of public education is a step in the wrong direction.
  - ivarkotnik 14y ago
    Definitely the wrong direction, because it can go wrong on so many ways. Myself I am a victim of for-profit education (well, my spouse is), effectively locked in by contract at a company for 10+ years more. It sounds so good in the beginning, but once you finish your studies and you stand in front of that loong walk...
    - bokonist 14y ago
      How is your spouse locked by contract for 10 years due to for-profit education?
  - keithpeter 14y ago
    "The school demanded a very high level of motivation and discipline. And this makes it problematic, since quite a lot of students at that age were ill prepared to face that." Cherrypicking of the self motivated ones will reduce the level of motivation and self-discipline seen in the 'safety net' schools. Not good for society as a whole. I worry about this in the UK.
gahahaha 14y ago
The experiences that were made from privatizing Swedish schools were: * generally worse results and increased inequality * 5 companies dominate the market, and makes huge profits * Sweden has fallen from 3rd to 19th on the PISA test in reading. * huge quality differences between schools * schools have become a "sorting machine" where motivated parents and pupils choose certain schools and avoid other schools. * The experience from Sweden, and research from OECD shows that more competition in school does not produce better results.
- Egregore 14y ago
  Can you provide any links?
  - yesbabyyes 14y ago
    On PISA tests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Stu... http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/01/why-gove-no-longer-cites-sweden-as-a-model-for-education-reform/ http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/01/why-gove-no-lo... Article from Swedish Radio: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=4891874 http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&#38... Report on OECD report: http://www.antidotenews.org.uk/?p=628&dm_i=LEV,ACD6,33QOY1,TOTD,1 http://www.antidotenews.org.uk/?p=628&dm_i=LEV,ACD6,33QO... Mostly it's in Swedish media, though. And what's been most criticized is the ability to extract profit from state funds, given that the biggest independent schools are owned by off-shore VC companies. The situation is similar with Swedish healthcare.
  - gahahaha 14y ago
    See my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262430 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262430
- marbleint 14y ago
  Yeah, any data to back this up would be great
nmutua 14y ago
nice approach and i like the fact that at least something changes in school system since it needs to be improved for sure. still i dont like schools to earn so much money. teachers and school managers need incentives to provide excellent lessons. but so much money as a profit? another point is the philosophy of the school. on the one hand they say that every student can learn at "his own level" but on the other hand they prefer standardization over everything else. they only want the standardization to be used at the framework, the process side. they dont want every student to learn the same things at the same speed. still it sounds like a contradiction to me. with some improvements this could be a very nice approach. employees should be able to get really big bonusses based on performance. half of the net profit should be used for investments and the other half should be extra tax for the goverment since imo schools should not accumulate huge profit amounts..
Muzza 14y ago
The school system in Sweden is many things (despicable, horrendous, etc etc), but free market it is not. These private schools don't operate on a free market - the government supplies the "customers" (students) under penalty of prison* for the students' parents, for crying out loud. * Or possibly even worse: a student who doesn't go to school is liable to end up in the clutches of the meddling welfare board.
- hjalle 14y ago
  I think I didn't really get this comment. Care to explain further?
  - Muzza 14y ago
    I'll try, but I don't see how I can make it any simpler. These "free market" schools receive payments from the government for each student they have. The government mandates that everyone attend school between the ages of 7 and 16 (or 6 and 15). This is not a free market. You cannot have the government create customers like this in a free market.
    - Retric 14y ago
      That's a BS semantic argument. First off you can be 'home schooled'. Far more importantly the question is does privatizing the school system improve average student performance OR lower costs and the answer is no.
      - treerock 14y ago
        It's not bullshit. The government are effectively outsourcing education to private companies. That's always going to result in rent-seeking on the part of the private companies. And it's not the same as free market/full privatisation, where the parents would pay the schools. (Not that I think private schooling would be better or cheaper than publicly funded schooling.)
      - Muzza 14y ago
matbec 14y ago
It's interesting that no mention was made of the Sweden's extremely poor policies and record with respect to homeschooling. There has been a lot of press the past few years over the Johansson family (child seized for being homeschooled) to the Himmelstrand family (severe fines for homeschooling). Here is a link to an HSLDA collection of other links that specifically address homeschooling in Sweden (http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/ http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/).

36 points by Misha_B 14y ago

Misha_B 14y ago

Looks like it's from 2008. I'll be happy to hear from anyone who has a closer experience with the Kunskapsskolan.

dwerthen 14y ago
I actually went to Kunskapsskolan as the equivalent of a High School student. Graduated in 2005. It work out very well for me, the freedom to go about the curriculum at my own pace suited me perfectly. The experience of going there was very much like what you would find at a university. The school demanded a very high level of motivation and discipline. And this makes it problematic, since quite a lot of students at that age were ill prepared to face that. I might be hesitant to say that this reform has worked out well for Sweden as a whole, as I think for-profit entities in charge of public education is a step in the wrong direction.
- ivarkotnik 14y ago
  Definitely the wrong direction, because it can go wrong on so many ways. Myself I am a victim of for-profit education (well, my spouse is), effectively locked in by contract at a company for 10+ years more. It sounds so good in the beginning, but once you finish your studies and you stand in front of that loong walk...
  - bokonist 14y ago
    How is your spouse locked by contract for 10 years due to for-profit education?
- keithpeter 14y ago
  "The school demanded a very high level of motivation and discipline. And this makes it problematic, since quite a lot of students at that age were ill prepared to face that." Cherrypicking of the self motivated ones will reduce the level of motivation and self-discipline seen in the 'safety net' schools. Not good for society as a whole. I worry about this in the UK.

gahahaha 14y ago

The experiences that were made from privatizing Swedish schools were: * generally worse results and increased inequality * 5 companies dominate the market, and makes huge profits * Sweden has fallen from 3rd to 19th on the PISA test in reading. * huge quality differences between schools * schools have become a "sorting machine" where motivated parents and pupils choose certain schools and avoid other schools. * The experience from Sweden, and research from OECD shows that more competition in school does not produce better results.

Egregore 14y ago
Can you provide any links?
- yesbabyyes 14y ago
  On PISA tests: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Stu... http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/01/why-gove-no-longer-cites-sweden-as-a-model-for-education-reform/ http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/01/why-gove-no-lo... Article from Swedish Radio: http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=4891874 http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&#38... Report on OECD report: http://www.antidotenews.org.uk/?p=628&dm_i=LEV,ACD6,33QOY1,TOTD,1 http://www.antidotenews.org.uk/?p=628&dm_i=LEV,ACD6,33QO... Mostly it's in Swedish media, though. And what's been most criticized is the ability to extract profit from state funds, given that the biggest independent schools are owned by off-shore VC companies. The situation is similar with Swedish healthcare.
- gahahaha 14y ago
  See my other comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262430 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4262430
marbleint 14y ago
Yeah, any data to back this up would be great

nmutua 14y ago

nice approach and i like the fact that at least something changes in school system since it needs to be improved for sure. still i dont like schools to earn so much money. teachers and school managers need incentives to provide excellent lessons. but so much money as a profit? another point is the philosophy of the school. on the one hand they say that every student can learn at "his own level" but on the other hand they prefer standardization over everything else. they only want the standardization to be used at the framework, the process side. they dont want every student to learn the same things at the same speed. still it sounds like a contradiction to me. with some improvements this could be a very nice approach. employees should be able to get really big bonusses based on performance. half of the net profit should be used for investments and the other half should be extra tax for the goverment since imo schools should not accumulate huge profit amounts..

Muzza 14y ago

The school system in Sweden is many things (despicable, horrendous, etc etc), but free market it is not. These private schools don't operate on a free market - the government supplies the "customers" (students) under penalty of prison* for the students' parents, for crying out loud. * Or possibly even worse: a student who doesn't go to school is liable to end up in the clutches of the meddling welfare board.

hjalle 14y ago
I think I didn't really get this comment. Care to explain further?
- Muzza 14y ago
  I'll try, but I don't see how I can make it any simpler. These "free market" schools receive payments from the government for each student they have. The government mandates that everyone attend school between the ages of 7 and 16 (or 6 and 15). This is not a free market. You cannot have the government create customers like this in a free market.
  - Retric 14y ago
    That's a BS semantic argument. First off you can be 'home schooled'. Far more importantly the question is does privatizing the school system improve average student performance OR lower costs and the answer is no.
    - treerock 14y ago
      It's not bullshit. The government are effectively outsourcing education to private companies. That's always going to result in rent-seeking on the part of the private companies. And it's not the same as free market/full privatisation, where the parents would pay the schools. (Not that I think private schooling would be better or cheaper than publicly funded schooling.)
    - Muzza 14y ago

matbec 14y ago

It's interesting that no mention was made of the Sweden's extremely poor policies and record with respect to homeschooling. There has been a lot of press the past few years over the Johansson family (child seized for being homeschooled) to the Himmelstrand family (severe fines for homeschooling). Here is a link to an HSLDA collection of other links that specifically address homeschooling in Sweden (http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/ http://www.hslda.org/hs/international/Sweden/).