5 ms·

While the situation with tracking in the West is awful, there's a huge difference between having a choice, however impractical, and being spied on in secret.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
My entire point was that we don't really have a choice -- for example, most people do not have a choice to own a phone any more. It's a practically mandatory sort of technology. So, we don't really have a choice here either, only the illusion of one.
- ANewFormation 2y ago
  It's also not just your phone. People seem to have forgotten about things like PRISM [1] because it's no longer in the news, but it's still very much around and likely only more extensive. The surveillance state extends far beyond just phones. Yet these articles, from well known organisations, extensively investigating (even featuring 0 day revelations) the decline of civil society in lieu of ever more pervasive surveillance and manipulation of opinion, only seem to ever focus on geopolitical adversaries of the US. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
  - vouaobrasil 2y ago
    Yep, I agree with that. It's much worse than just phones.
johngladtj 2y ago
There is no choice. It is literally illegal for me to buy a decent laptop with cash in Portugal for example.
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Why is that? Can you provide a source? (Not distrusting you, but it would be great to have a source because I'm a writer and interested in writing about these things.)
  - pmontra 2y ago
    Maybe because of this https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cash-payment-limitations.html#:~:text=Portugal https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas...
  - cfn 2y ago
    It's the law. You can't pay in cash for anything above three thousand euros. If you're a company the limit is even lower at 1000 Euros. Interesting though that a foreigner, such as a tourist, can pay up to 10 thousand euros in cash as long it's not a business transaction.
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  This is a lie. Not much else to say about it, it just is not true. I know people living in Portugal, first hand, with pretty beefy and expensive laptops.
  - arlort 2y ago
    He means buying it in cash. Anti money laundering / tax evasion laws in some places prohibit using cash above a certain limit
    - surgical_fire 2y ago
      It is still a lie. I think the limit in Portugal for cash transactions is around €3k. You can buy a pretty great laptop with that
43yt3yteg 2y ago
In Sweden, it's illegal to buy prepaid mobile phones with cash since august 1, 2022.
- medo-bear 2y ago
  In contrast, in Serbia you can buy simcards without ID at any kiosk
bell-cot 2y ago
Unless you're living in a cabin in rural Alaska or something, you are being spied on in secret (do we still use that word, post-Snowden?) in the West. "No smart phone" merely removes some of the fine detail from the GB's of data that the 3-letters have about you.

vouaobrasil 2y ago

My entire point was that we don't really have a choice -- for example, most people do not have a choice to own a phone any more. It's a practically mandatory sort of technology. So, we don't really have a choice here either, only the illusion of one.

ANewFormation 2y ago
It's also not just your phone. People seem to have forgotten about things like PRISM [1] because it's no longer in the news, but it's still very much around and likely only more extensive. The surveillance state extends far beyond just phones. Yet these articles, from well known organisations, extensively investigating (even featuring 0 day revelations) the decline of civil society in lieu of ever more pervasive surveillance and manipulation of opinion, only seem to ever focus on geopolitical adversaries of the US. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Yep, I agree with that. It's much worse than just phones.

johngladtj 2y ago

There is no choice. It is literally illegal for me to buy a decent laptop with cash in Portugal for example.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Why is that? Can you provide a source? (Not distrusting you, but it would be great to have a source because I'm a writer and interested in writing about these things.)
- pmontra 2y ago
  Maybe because of this https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cash-payment-limitations.html#:~:text=Portugal https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/en/shopping-internet/cas...
- cfn 2y ago
  It's the law. You can't pay in cash for anything above three thousand euros. If you're a company the limit is even lower at 1000 Euros. Interesting though that a foreigner, such as a tourist, can pay up to 10 thousand euros in cash as long it's not a business transaction.
surgical_fire 2y ago
This is a lie. Not much else to say about it, it just is not true. I know people living in Portugal, first hand, with pretty beefy and expensive laptops.
- arlort 2y ago
  He means buying it in cash. Anti money laundering / tax evasion laws in some places prohibit using cash above a certain limit
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    It is still a lie. I think the limit in Portugal for cash transactions is around €3k. You can buy a pretty great laptop with that

43yt3yteg 2y ago

In Sweden, it's illegal to buy prepaid mobile phones with cash since august 1, 2022.

medo-bear 2y ago
In contrast, in Serbia you can buy simcards without ID at any kiosk

bell-cot 2y ago

Unless you're living in a cabin in rural Alaska or something, you are being spied on in secret (do we still use that word, post-Snowden?) in the West. "No smart phone" merely removes some of the fine detail from the GB's of data that the 3-letters have about you.