7 ms·

Did you forget about Edward Snowden?

9cb14c1ec0 2y ago
Maybe I read this story wrong, but I wouldn't put Snowden in the same crowd as this person. Much more of a criminal in this case versus a whistleblower.
wyldfire 2y ago
Well, on one hand I'm surprised to see this take on HN. OTOH it's nice that it's not strictly a hive-mind.
- the-chitmonger 2y ago
  There's nothing inherently negative about going rogue and hacking - I think few would deny that that's what Snowden did.
anonym29 2y ago
The hero who revealed to the American public that their own government was secretly treating them like hostile foreigners and lying about it to our faces? And that everyone who collaborated to build the collection infrastructure violated the oath they swore to uphold the constitution, given that the mere collection itself was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge? That's not going rogue, that was the most heroic and patriotic thing anyone in his shoes could possibly do.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  Snowdon is a traitor and a coward. Where is he living these days?
  - booleandilemma 2y ago
    Somewhere our beloved leaders can't arrest him and send him to a CIA black site for the rest of his life.
  - wyldfire 2y ago
    I don't think he's a traitor, especially if you consider the intent of his disclosures and the care he took to make sure that only the info that needed to be disclosed was. I suppose we can agree to disagree on that topic. But "cowardice" - that claim is just mind-boggling. What he did, even if you disagree with his motivations, required self sacrifice and bravery. Fleeing (what he believes to be) unjust laws that would punish him for his work is not at all cowardly.
    - hollerith 2y ago
      I agree. Snowden's most traitorous act IMHO seems to have been mistakenly assuming that Beijing and the government of Hong Kong could afford to antagonize the national-security establishment in Washington to the extent of letting him reside in Hong Kong.
  - Yiin 2y ago
    Where can he live anyways? Every other country will extradite his ass back to US, be real.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    In the country he was transiting through en-route to his final destination in South America, before POTUS deliberately and specifically revoked his passport after ensuring Snowden had landed at his layover airport, in order to construct and disseminate the false narrative you're currently regurgitating.
    - oyashirochama 2y ago
      He did break the law and all, means to an end isn't a good path unfortnately when you have no power. There were options to take to whistle blow the surveillance of citizens and it's illegal under NSA's own policy that they ignored illegally, and there's a technically independent section/organization for leaking these issues to OCA. Though I'm not sure if it was around in Snowden's time, it could literally have been made due to his concerns ironically.
      - simoncion 2y ago
        > There were options to take to whistle blow the surveillance of citizens... You should read Snowden's statements on the official channels he attempted to use, and those he disregarded. You should also go read up on what Daniel Ellsberg thought of Snowden's chances for getting a fair trial after publicly blowing the whistle on the long-running violation of federal domestic spying law. [0] [0] In the mid-1970's, FedGov treated whistleblowers who released classified information very, very poorly. These days (and back in the mid 2000's), FedGov fucking crucifies such people behind closed doors.
        2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
        He never attempted to use official channels. > “As a legal matter, during his time with NSA, Edward Snowden did not use whistleblower procedures under either law or regulation to raise his objections to U.S. intelligence activities, and thus, is not considered a whistleblower under current law.” (p. 18) https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=743 https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?Docu... You should give these docs a skim, I'd be curious what your thoughts are. I used to sympathize with Snowden (and Assange) until I read into what actually went down.
- ChumpGPT 2y ago
  I could have told you everything Snowden told you back in 2001. It was no secret that every phone call and every txt along with all your mail was being scanned and archived. Everything he revealed was already revealed years earlier, it's just no one really cared or was paying attention in 2000-2001.

Maybe I read this story wrong, but I wouldn't put Snowden in the same crowd as this person. Much more of a criminal in this case versus a whistleblower.

wyldfire 2y ago

Well, on one hand I'm surprised to see this take on HN. OTOH it's nice that it's not strictly a hive-mind.

the-chitmonger 2y ago
There's nothing inherently negative about going rogue and hacking - I think few would deny that that's what Snowden did.

anonym29 2y ago

The hero who revealed to the American public that their own government was secretly treating them like hostile foreigners and lying about it to our faces? And that everyone who collaborated to build the collection infrastructure violated the oath they swore to uphold the constitution, given that the mere collection itself was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge? That's not going rogue, that was the most heroic and patriotic thing anyone in his shoes could possibly do.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
Snowdon is a traitor and a coward. Where is he living these days?
- booleandilemma 2y ago
  Somewhere our beloved leaders can't arrest him and send him to a CIA black site for the rest of his life.
- wyldfire 2y ago
  I don't think he's a traitor, especially if you consider the intent of his disclosures and the care he took to make sure that only the info that needed to be disclosed was. I suppose we can agree to disagree on that topic. But "cowardice" - that claim is just mind-boggling. What he did, even if you disagree with his motivations, required self sacrifice and bravery. Fleeing (what he believes to be) unjust laws that would punish him for his work is not at all cowardly.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    I agree. Snowden's most traitorous act IMHO seems to have been mistakenly assuming that Beijing and the government of Hong Kong could afford to antagonize the national-security establishment in Washington to the extent of letting him reside in Hong Kong.
- Yiin 2y ago
  Where can he live anyways? Every other country will extradite his ass back to US, be real.
- anonym29 2y ago
  In the country he was transiting through en-route to his final destination in South America, before POTUS deliberately and specifically revoked his passport after ensuring Snowden had landed at his layover airport, in order to construct and disseminate the false narrative you're currently regurgitating.
  - oyashirochama 2y ago
    He did break the law and all, means to an end isn't a good path unfortnately when you have no power. There were options to take to whistle blow the surveillance of citizens and it's illegal under NSA's own policy that they ignored illegally, and there's a technically independent section/organization for leaking these issues to OCA. Though I'm not sure if it was around in Snowden's time, it could literally have been made due to his concerns ironically.
    - simoncion 2y ago
      > There were options to take to whistle blow the surveillance of citizens... You should read Snowden's statements on the official channels he attempted to use, and those he disregarded. You should also go read up on what Daniel Ellsberg thought of Snowden's chances for getting a fair trial after publicly blowing the whistle on the long-running violation of federal domestic spying law. [0] [0] In the mid-1970's, FedGov treated whistleblowers who released classified information very, very poorly. These days (and back in the mid 2000's), FedGov fucking crucifies such people behind closed doors.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
        He never attempted to use official channels. > “As a legal matter, during his time with NSA, Edward Snowden did not use whistleblower procedures under either law or regulation to raise his objections to U.S. intelligence activities, and thus, is not considered a whistleblower under current law.” (p. 18) https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=743 https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?Docu... You should give these docs a skim, I'd be curious what your thoughts are. I used to sympathize with Snowden (and Assange) until I read into what actually went down.
ChumpGPT 2y ago
I could have told you everything Snowden told you back in 2001. It was no secret that every phone call and every txt along with all your mail was being scanned and archived. Everything he revealed was already revealed years earlier, it's just no one really cared or was paying attention in 2000-2001.