6 ms·

I wrote out a snarky response based off what I understood and then I did more research and he had a big impact. This is a better article to link to in my opinio

I wrote out a snarky response based off what I understood and then I did more research and he had a big impact. This is a better article to link to in my opinion though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter%27s_engagement_with_Ruhollah_Khomeini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter%27s_engagement_wi...

tgma 2y ago
Yup, none of this is particularly unknown or secretive for people who look and not interested in deliberate deception (Khomeini was delivered by Air France after all!) Yes, more specifically, Shah was an ally to Nixon and had put his eggs in that basket (to the degree that he attended Shah's funeral.) Once the tide turned and Ford lost, shit quickly hit the fan (a bit resembling how Biden treated MBS.) The other funny and ironic thing is Shah was instrumental in mediating and shaping the deal between Sadat and Israel, but somehow he got the short end of the stick and was branded an asshole authoritarian dictator by US leftist media (see Mike Wallace 60 mins from 1976[1] for example) and Carter got the Nobel Prize. P.S. for fun, compare to Wallace's attitude when he sat down with Khomeini only a few years later, with questions submitted and vetted in advance[2]! Oh well, how history is written and rewritten... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RH2wXQtFdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RH2wXQtFdo [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwyWI_jKQaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwyWI_jKQaw
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Trump abandoned the Kurds. I'm not sure you can lay any particular blame on the 'left' for poor decisions. It was strange how much Biden got blamed for pulling out of Afghanistan, everyone completely forgot the same pictures of Kurds.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
These articles aren't painting the condemning picture I think you are thinking they do. If someone becomes president, and a foreign government is already falling apart, and you talk about options and what might become the new government, does that automatically make it your fault? The Shah wasn't a saint, and kind of created the situation. If you want to place blame for Iran, it might need to go further back to Eisenhower and the Coup that put the Shah in power. The US actually overthrew a democratic country, to put the Shaw, a monarch back into power. From there forward, every president had their hand in kicking Iran. Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon. They were all involved. Why lay it at Carters feet? Or go further back. The West, after WW2, purposely split up the Middle East in a way to keep it in Chaos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement "The two diplomats' pencils divided the map of one of the most volatile regions in the world into states that cut through ethnic and religious communities."
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Well said, friend. Thank you for expanding my understanding of the situation.
- dclowd9901 2y ago
  Because it's not an argument in earnest. For some reason (maybe because a real louse of a president will be inaugurating soon), the right has suddenly taken up a vendetta against Carter. I've seen him blamed for every problem in world at the time, including the Asaba Massacre and the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge. No president has ever done everything right, but no president has also spent their retirement years devoted to public service. Hell, almost no _normal people_ do that.
- ashoeafoot 2y ago
  it was utopia. everywhere on the planet that was not the west. that cultural stagnation and backwardness could attract parasitic imperialism , if you hike at the foot of the exponential mountains , who could have known .. certainly not the culture that had all the greek scripts and did nothing with them but slavery and local imperialism. That history of half truths doesn't hold water anymore. We have colonized countries colonize the middle east now. Get new material or get of the stage .
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    ??? can you clarify please. Are you blaming the Greeks for Imperialism? Maybe referencing Alexander the Great era when they conquered Persia? Perhaps pushing the blame for Iran even further back?
- tgma 2y ago
  That is just your narrative. The incident was a disasterous foreign policy and very direct and it backfired on him very quickly too (I frankly rather not further debate this on a gratitude thread out of respect for his supporters but we could go ad nauseum). You can add all the color you want to soothe your pain and paint your own hero in the story as an unmistakeable saint, meanwhile kicking every other leader down for basic decisions they had to make for the good of their people. In the end results speak for themselves: the American people did not see him worthy of a second term. The point is not "there are hard choices a President has to make," which is a fine attitude, but the fact that the GP idolized him so much to declare him best for "all of humanity." That is absolutely ridiculous. Clearly not.

tgma 2y ago

Yup, none of this is particularly unknown or secretive for people who look and not interested in deliberate deception (Khomeini was delivered by Air France after all!) Yes, more specifically, Shah was an ally to Nixon and had put his eggs in that basket (to the degree that he attended Shah's funeral.) Once the tide turned and Ford lost, shit quickly hit the fan (a bit resembling how Biden treated MBS.) The other funny and ironic thing is Shah was instrumental in mediating and shaping the deal between Sadat and Israel, but somehow he got the short end of the stick and was branded an asshole authoritarian dictator by US leftist media (see Mike Wallace 60 mins from 1976[1] for example) and Carter got the Nobel Prize. P.S. for fun, compare to Wallace's attitude when he sat down with Khomeini only a few years later, with questions submitted and vetted in advance[2]! Oh well, how history is written and rewritten... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RH2wXQtFdo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RH2wXQtFdo [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwyWI_jKQaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwyWI_jKQaw

FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Trump abandoned the Kurds. I'm not sure you can lay any particular blame on the 'left' for poor decisions. It was strange how much Biden got blamed for pulling out of Afghanistan, everyone completely forgot the same pictures of Kurds.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

These articles aren't painting the condemning picture I think you are thinking they do. If someone becomes president, and a foreign government is already falling apart, and you talk about options and what might become the new government, does that automatically make it your fault? The Shah wasn't a saint, and kind of created the situation. If you want to place blame for Iran, it might need to go further back to Eisenhower and the Coup that put the Shah in power. The US actually overthrew a democratic country, to put the Shaw, a monarch back into power. From there forward, every president had their hand in kicking Iran. Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon. They were all involved. Why lay it at Carters feet? Or go further back. The West, after WW2, purposely split up the Middle East in a way to keep it in Chaos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement "The two diplomats' pencils divided the map of one of the most volatile regions in the world into states that cut through ethnic and religious communities."

MrMcCall 2y ago
Well said, friend. Thank you for expanding my understanding of the situation.
dclowd9901 2y ago
Because it's not an argument in earnest. For some reason (maybe because a real louse of a president will be inaugurating soon), the right has suddenly taken up a vendetta against Carter. I've seen him blamed for every problem in world at the time, including the Asaba Massacre and the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge. No president has ever done everything right, but no president has also spent their retirement years devoted to public service. Hell, almost no _normal people_ do that.
ashoeafoot 2y ago
it was utopia. everywhere on the planet that was not the west. that cultural stagnation and backwardness could attract parasitic imperialism , if you hike at the foot of the exponential mountains , who could have known .. certainly not the culture that had all the greek scripts and did nothing with them but slavery and local imperialism. That history of half truths doesn't hold water anymore. We have colonized countries colonize the middle east now. Get new material or get of the stage .
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  ??? can you clarify please. Are you blaming the Greeks for Imperialism? Maybe referencing Alexander the Great era when they conquered Persia? Perhaps pushing the blame for Iran even further back?
tgma 2y ago
That is just your narrative. The incident was a disasterous foreign policy and very direct and it backfired on him very quickly too (I frankly rather not further debate this on a gratitude thread out of respect for his supporters but we could go ad nauseum). You can add all the color you want to soothe your pain and paint your own hero in the story as an unmistakeable saint, meanwhile kicking every other leader down for basic decisions they had to make for the good of their people. In the end results speak for themselves: the American people did not see him worthy of a second term. The point is not "there are hard choices a President has to make," which is a fine attitude, but the fact that the GP idolized him so much to declare him best for "all of humanity." That is absolutely ridiculous. Clearly not.