5 ms·

Sounds like its a problem everywhere, not just the states.

RGamma 2y ago
And it's not just in programming-related jobs either. Parts of industry and the blue collar market are shitting themselves in Germany right now. Two people I know have been let go (pumps and wood sectors resp.). Another (metal construction) is getting barely more than minimum wage. There's only one dude (chemical engineer) who is doing well (nearing 100k at 5 years work experience). The others are getting by. Politicians are still complaining about Fachkräftemangel, skilled labor shortage, but it's really a wage slave shortage.
- brtkdotse 2y ago
  > Fachkräftemangel Why is this German word thrown in without any explanation? I’ve noticed this is a common trend whenever a Germany-adjacent topic is discussed.
  - romanows 2y ago
    I had to look it up; for others, it means "skilled worker shortage".
  - nicbou 2y ago
    It was on everyone’s lips for a few years, to the point that it had become the placeholder for the entire meme. The short version is that there is a shortage of skilled workers that absolutely requires immigrants to fill the gaps. However when you look around there isn’t really a shortage; people just aren’t willing to work for little pay. The English term implies that there is an actual shortage. It might please you to know just how much English other languages are peppered with.
    - missedthecue 2y ago
      Does this imply that people would rather be broke than work for less pay than they want? How are they paying rent each month?
      - lifestyleguru 2y ago
        Less pay in EU means working to afford only the rent, bills, and groceries. One is better off doing nothing professionally and living off their savings. Well, the 2025 is going to be interesting....
      - nicbou 2y ago
        Unemployment benefits cover 60% of your income for up to 12 months. It’s more sensible to find another appropriate job than to work in a low wage job.
    - fabianholzer 2y ago
      It's being used in the German political discourse since at least the first term of the Schröder government in the late 1990es, which is about where I started following the news and politics more closely. It has been used cynically as justification for every thinkable cut into the social system ever since, from lobbying against a minimum wage to moving up the retirement age. You won't find many people, except for politicians and lobbyists, that'll still use the term unironically. It seems there are remarkable parallels on the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    Unless they edited it in afterwards, they are translating it. That's what the two-comma asides are, explanations/clarifications.
    - RGamma 2y ago
      I edited it in, sorry for the confusion.
  - thrawn0r 2y ago
    the OP has the explanation (skilled labor shortage) just after the word....
- layer8 2y ago
  On the other hand, craftsmen are in high demand and make good money, but not too many people seem to be keen on that kind of career.
  - RGamma 2y ago
    You hear this or that in Germany. Demand yes, pay meh. It's probably true if you own the company, but there's also disgruntled folks who apparently got treated like shit during their apprenticeship and who snicker at their former employers or dissuade would-be prospects when their field isn't doing well (boohoo poor Porsche drivers) or when they try to advertise a craft. At least the YT comments under several blue collar documentaries/adverts say so, but I know none personally. Then there's an ongoing crisis in construction due to widespread financing problems (need two decently paid full time earners, no kids, to afford it with some certainty and no 30+ year debt slavery at least around where I live) and assorted crafts. An electrician friend is doing okay, but not exactly great, at barely more than 40k pre-tax per year. Another one who is farmer on the side (can't afford to live from it) makes about as much in his profession (mechanic). I.e. forget single earner family and/or mortgage. It's difficult to gauge accurately, because statistics are complicated and/or shit and/or biased, the employment situation highly depends on region and field and things seem to be changing at a crazy pace, not least caused by the recent economic shocks (war, COVID, a decade+ of QE), problems with funding pensions/bad demography, increasing competition in core industries, high energy prices and political indecisiveness. How much each factor contributes remains a mystery to me. Wealth m/billionaires seem to be growing fine. Personally I'm more and more convinced there's no conspiracy and things really are as bad... The Japanification of Germany. At least our debt isn't as high yet.
- odiroot 2y ago
  > And it's not just in programming-related jobs either. Parts of industry and the blue collar market are shitting themselves in Germany right now. > Politicians are still complaining about Fachkräftemangel, These two things can be, and in fact are right now true at the same time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_unemployment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_unemployment Everyone coming from an ex-Warsaw-Pact country most probably already lived through that before. We've entered the market economy (and stopped the play-pretend) with huge unemployment and lack of skilled workers at the same time.
  - vbi8iBEX 2y ago
    I think this is the most interesting and telling comment i've read. Inflation destroyed the world economy.
    - BlueTemplar 2y ago
      Inflation is a symptom. Related or not (Covid was a big shock after all), "rich" countries have been living way over their means for many decades now (in terms of natural resources). It's particularly wild to see people calling for a return to the "norm" that were the post-WW2 decades : that wasn't a "norm", that was the fastest growth period that mankind had ever seen (and probably will ever see) ! So now (since the 1970s) we are way over due for a correction... which is probably going to look like a few centuries of recession with a few good years (for some maybe even good decades) thrown in here and there.
speakfreely 2y ago
Germany is facing more intense economic challenges than most.
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  Can someone explain why this is getting down votes? AFAIK it's true and relevant
  - layer8 2y ago
    Probably because Germany’s standard of living is still comparatively high.
    - ajmurmann 2y ago
      But standard of living is a lagging indicator of economics growth.
obscurette 2y ago
In Europe it's a little bit different though in my opinion. Here most of industries have been just regulated to death, a money is leaving and things fall apart like house of cards. And EU thinks that the answer is ... more regulations.
rukuu001 2y ago
Same in Australia. I’m at a startup involved with placing people on digital projects. I see a lot of amazing people struggling in the market right now. This is mirrored by a general slowdown in actual project spend by businesses. Locally, there has been a very very minor uptick in activity prior to Christmas which is a historically weird time for that to happen, so I’m slightly optimistic for the new year. But the last 12 months have been very tough.

And it's not just in programming-related jobs either. Parts of industry and the blue collar market are shitting themselves in Germany right now. Two people I know have been let go (pumps and wood sectors resp.). Another (metal construction) is getting barely more than minimum wage. There's only one dude (chemical engineer) who is doing well (nearing 100k at 5 years work experience). The others are getting by. Politicians are still complaining about Fachkräftemangel, skilled labor shortage, but it's really a wage slave shortage.

brtkdotse 2y ago
> Fachkräftemangel Why is this German word thrown in without any explanation? I’ve noticed this is a common trend whenever a Germany-adjacent topic is discussed.
- romanows 2y ago
  I had to look it up; for others, it means "skilled worker shortage".
- nicbou 2y ago
  It was on everyone’s lips for a few years, to the point that it had become the placeholder for the entire meme. The short version is that there is a shortage of skilled workers that absolutely requires immigrants to fill the gaps. However when you look around there isn’t really a shortage; people just aren’t willing to work for little pay. The English term implies that there is an actual shortage. It might please you to know just how much English other languages are peppered with.
  - missedthecue 2y ago
    Does this imply that people would rather be broke than work for less pay than they want? How are they paying rent each month?
    - lifestyleguru 2y ago
      Less pay in EU means working to afford only the rent, bills, and groceries. One is better off doing nothing professionally and living off their savings. Well, the 2025 is going to be interesting....
    - nicbou 2y ago
      Unemployment benefits cover 60% of your income for up to 12 months. It’s more sensible to find another appropriate job than to work in a low wage job.
  - fabianholzer 2y ago
    It's being used in the German political discourse since at least the first term of the Schröder government in the late 1990es, which is about where I started following the news and politics more closely. It has been used cynically as justification for every thinkable cut into the social system ever since, from lobbying against a minimum wage to moving up the retirement age. You won't find many people, except for politicians and lobbyists, that'll still use the term unironically. It seems there are remarkable parallels on the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
- Izkata 2y ago
  Unless they edited it in afterwards, they are translating it. That's what the two-comma asides are, explanations/clarifications.
  - RGamma 2y ago
    I edited it in, sorry for the confusion.
- thrawn0r 2y ago
  the OP has the explanation (skilled labor shortage) just after the word....
layer8 2y ago
On the other hand, craftsmen are in high demand and make good money, but not too many people seem to be keen on that kind of career.
- RGamma 2y ago
  You hear this or that in Germany. Demand yes, pay meh. It's probably true if you own the company, but there's also disgruntled folks who apparently got treated like shit during their apprenticeship and who snicker at their former employers or dissuade would-be prospects when their field isn't doing well (boohoo poor Porsche drivers) or when they try to advertise a craft. At least the YT comments under several blue collar documentaries/adverts say so, but I know none personally. Then there's an ongoing crisis in construction due to widespread financing problems (need two decently paid full time earners, no kids, to afford it with some certainty and no 30+ year debt slavery at least around where I live) and assorted crafts. An electrician friend is doing okay, but not exactly great, at barely more than 40k pre-tax per year. Another one who is farmer on the side (can't afford to live from it) makes about as much in his profession (mechanic). I.e. forget single earner family and/or mortgage. It's difficult to gauge accurately, because statistics are complicated and/or shit and/or biased, the employment situation highly depends on region and field and things seem to be changing at a crazy pace, not least caused by the recent economic shocks (war, COVID, a decade+ of QE), problems with funding pensions/bad demography, increasing competition in core industries, high energy prices and political indecisiveness. How much each factor contributes remains a mystery to me. Wealth m/billionaires seem to be growing fine. Personally I'm more and more convinced there's no conspiracy and things really are as bad... The Japanification of Germany. At least our debt isn't as high yet.
odiroot 2y ago
> And it's not just in programming-related jobs either. Parts of industry and the blue collar market are shitting themselves in Germany right now. > Politicians are still complaining about Fachkräftemangel, These two things can be, and in fact are right now true at the same time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_unemployment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_unemployment Everyone coming from an ex-Warsaw-Pact country most probably already lived through that before. We've entered the market economy (and stopped the play-pretend) with huge unemployment and lack of skilled workers at the same time.
- vbi8iBEX 2y ago
  I think this is the most interesting and telling comment i've read. Inflation destroyed the world economy.
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    Inflation is a symptom. Related or not (Covid was a big shock after all), "rich" countries have been living way over their means for many decades now (in terms of natural resources). It's particularly wild to see people calling for a return to the "norm" that were the post-WW2 decades : that wasn't a "norm", that was the fastest growth period that mankind had ever seen (and probably will ever see) ! So now (since the 1970s) we are way over due for a correction... which is probably going to look like a few centuries of recession with a few good years (for some maybe even good decades) thrown in here and there.

speakfreely 2y ago

Germany is facing more intense economic challenges than most.

ajmurmann 2y ago
Can someone explain why this is getting down votes? AFAIK it's true and relevant
- layer8 2y ago
  Probably because Germany’s standard of living is still comparatively high.
  - ajmurmann 2y ago
    But standard of living is a lagging indicator of economics growth.

obscurette 2y ago

In Europe it's a little bit different though in my opinion. Here most of industries have been just regulated to death, a money is leaving and things fall apart like house of cards. And EU thinks that the answer is ... more regulations.

rukuu001 2y ago

Same in Australia. I’m at a startup involved with placing people on digital projects. I see a lot of amazing people struggling in the market right now. This is mirrored by a general slowdown in actual project spend by businesses. Locally, there has been a very very minor uptick in activity prior to Christmas which is a historically weird time for that to happen, so I’m slightly optimistic for the new year. But the last 12 months have been very tough.