6 ms·
>Europe clings to the hope that the rules-based international order that—at this point—everyone is abandoning That's funny. It died when the US invaded Iraq in
by protomolecule 2y ago
>Europe clings to the hope that the rules-based international order that—at this point—everyone is abandoning
That's funny. It died when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 and the EU continued business as usual.
- thanksgiving 2y ago> EU just watched A lot of us in the US don't subscribe to the idea of "either you're with us or against us". I don't expect every single country in the world to drop everything they are doing and rush to help us invade whatever country we want to invade. I think it is ridiculous to say the EU is not with us because they don't blindly follow us everywhere. In hindsight, it was a bad idea to invade Iraq anyway.
- simonh 2y agoI think you may be misconstruing that comment. I suspect the idea is that the US invading Iraq was a violation of the international rules based order, and the EU was complicit in it.
- thanksgiving 2y agoI apologize for my error. I thought it said just watched when I replied. Grandparent clarified their post since then.
- protomolecule 2y agoSorry about that
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- buran77 2y ago> the EU just watched The EU paid its "protection tax" by implicitly or explicitly endorsing any US actions. It's what always gave legitimacy to any US military action, what gave them the sheen of righteousness. The EU didn't "just watch", they did what they were expected to do. Going forward, if Trump's anti-NATO agenda materializes, the US will have to find a different source of legitimacy for their actions or be painted as just an aggressor on the world stage.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> It died when the US invaded Iraq in 2003 Probably not, but that’s a separate—if fruitful—discussion. (Better candidates: NATO bombing Yugoslavia.) What’s not debatable is that it has changed. Given how lightfootedly Europe is playing its hand, it’s surprising it’s taken this long to get Putin at their throats, Trump at their wallets and Xi gutting their industry.
- protomolecule 2y ago[flagged]
- mopsi 2y agoThere was no coup in Ukraine. Russian-backed president got over 100 protesters killed, ran away to Russia to avoid justice, and Ukrainian parliament held presidential elections to replace him.
- peutetre 2y ago> From Russia it looks like that Europe is at Putin's throat supplying enormous amount of armaments and military equipment to the Ukraine, and helping them with the intelligence. The solution to this problem is straightforward. Putin can get out of Ukraine. All of it. Simple to do, easy to achieve. No more Russians or North Koreans need to die.
- klibertp 2y ago> The solution to this problem is straightforward. Putin can get out of Ukraine. Or Ukraine can surrender. "Simple" to do, "easy" to achieve, no more Ukrainians need to die. Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting Ukraine should surrender. I'm saying both Ukraine's surrender and the Russian pull-out are equally hard to do from their respective perspectives.
- fnordsensei 2y agoOnly from a very sterile perspective, divorced from humanity. Consider what it would sound like if you applied this logic to any perpetrator/victim situation, like a rape for example.
- matt-p 2y agoWhat's the EU got to do with it? The EU is a glorified trade bloc, it doesn't work for the union on defense; that is handled by individual nations. The UK did a similar amount to the US per capita in Iraq, even though we had less to gain and, frankly, it has punched above it's weight in practically every war going since well before the US even existed. Including Ukraine for example, where we were the first to arm them in advance of the invasion. This comes across as american ignorance, I'm sorry to say.