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EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall a

EVs are topping the list of (imho) useless extras in cars. I'm still cherishing my Honda Fit pre-touchscreen edition. I'm going to drive it until it will fall apart. My next car will be an EV but I have yet to find one that still comes with mechanical features (door handles, knobs/buttons), without a whole battery of surveillance/telemetry tech and (crossing fingers) exchangable batteries. Simple electric propulsion ...

Rebelgecko 2y ago
In a lot of cars you can pull the fuse that powers the cellular modem without any side effects
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  you're taking to a bunch of old men shouting (literally) at clouds
  - mulmen 2y ago
    Pulling a fuse in a car is peak old maning.
    - doodlebugging 2y ago
      Peak old manning would involve locating all the information needed to be able to identify and remove all the components used to facilitate the tracking (or other bullshit that complicates vehicle ownership) and then following the documented procedures and updating other like-minded owners on vehicle forums so that everyone else can do the same. In the process some forum threads would pick up hundreds of posts over a decade or more so that removal of every nut, bolt, screw, plastic plug, etc is documented with photos, allowing anyone with the vehicle to see exactly how to take ownership of the vehicle from the manufacturer. True old-school old manning involves not only removal of all the bullshit, but also covers all cosmetic changes to the vehicle that would be needed to eliminate all signs that any of the offending components were ever installed and would include things like how to accomplish all the trim and body work necessary to permanently fill all the holes in the vehicle like antenna penetrations through the vehicle body and plastic trim mods to fill holes that formerly held buttons or switches that no longer exist. In the process, old-school old manning would attack the software used in the vehicle, removing all the offending functionality with a custom flash tool so that the only software running on the vehicle after all the mods are completed would be that which controls and monitors engine and transmission functionality since that is actually the only software on a vehicle that adds value by allowing the vehicle owner to track operating efficiency in real time.
behnamoh 2y ago
I hate touchscreen buttons too and unfortunately all EVs I've seen have adopted that. I wonder if there are EVs with good old fashioned mechanical buttons.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Safety agencies in Europe are already pushing to bring these back: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-back-buttons-to-get-good-safety-scores-in-europe/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-ba...
- natch 2y ago
  Many EVs have a sensible amount of buttons, and you generally don’t need the touchscreen for driving or much else for that matter. I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting. Around here (where we have many immigrants and some odd practices) I’ve seen people with a towel hanging over their screen while driving, to protect it like a dust cover I guess. The one thing you might argue I do need from my screen is the speed, which is very easy to see and usually not needed in the flow of traffic. The outcry against screens is just misinformed imho. My car has plenty of mechanical buttons.
  - behnamoh 2y ago
    What model is your car?
    - natch 2y ago
      3
  - tremon 2y ago
    I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting At least you're still acknowledging the abysmal state of modern cars by including this statement. Why on earth would anyone expect otherwise from a car?
    - 2y ago
johnea 2y ago
I just bought a used 2023 Nissan Leaf. Fully EV, real buttons and knobs, and of course the model is cancelled. The original tracking was 2G cellular, later updated to 3G cellular. 2G is long depricated, and 3G is already shutdown in many places. This is a great car! Which explains why it's no longer available. It doesn't meet modern american needs, like being at least as large as a small building, or having 0 visibility over the hood, or costing at least $75K. (p.s. I paid $15K for mine, with 18K miles on the odometer and 150 miles of battery range) But if you're into retro, like buttons and knobs, I highly recommend it... p.s. I have to wonder if the data breach doesn't affect ICE cars as well? Would they use a separate surveilance system?
- steelframe 2y ago
  I've owned two LEAFs. Fantastic vehicle. I only got rid of it when I realized all the cars around me were only getting bigger and heavier, and I felt I needed to get an SUV to defend myself against that.
- grakker 2y ago
  I bought a used '14 Leaf in '16. It has been a great car with very little battery degradation. Sure, I'm not going to be taking it on any long trips, but for 90% of my driving it is great. I paid $11k for it. Best car purchase I've made in 30+ years of car ownership.
- dboreham 2y ago
  That's amazing considering 2023 was only last year.
geor9e 2y ago
Just to be clear, this breach mostly affects non-EV cars. Even my stick shift, manual window crank car came with a hidden cellular data modem, collecting my GPS location by default.
natch 2y ago
One person’s useless extra is another person’s collision avoidance system, AC, music system… I like extras when they make sense.
prmoustache 2y ago
You can convert an old car to EV. There are comoanies speciliazing in this, mostly to convert classics that needed a ton of maintenance. Expensive yes but might be worth it if you value your privacy.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  me thinks anyone with a cell phone in this year of our Lord 2024 should not say they worry about privacy in any context. instead of converting old car to EV I’d start by converting a rotary phone to a portable one :)
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  only worth it if you really value the environment, your privacy, but not your life
- geor9e 2y ago
  How is a complete rebuild of a car your go-to solution to an easily accessible cellular modem powered through the fuse box
  - AngryData 2y ago
    I agree it shouldn't be necessary, but its not like replacing a motor and drivetrain on a vehicle is some super rare thing either, and often still far cheaper than buying a brand new car.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    Is it the case? Or is the fuse shared for something else that happens to be useful/important for the operation of the vehicle? I'd be surprised if there was a dedicated fuse for only a modem really, especially in an EV or hybrid.

Rebelgecko 2y ago

In a lot of cars you can pull the fuse that powers the cellular modem without any side effects

1oooqooq 2y ago
you're taking to a bunch of old men shouting (literally) at clouds
- mulmen 2y ago
  Pulling a fuse in a car is peak old maning.
  - doodlebugging 2y ago
    Peak old manning would involve locating all the information needed to be able to identify and remove all the components used to facilitate the tracking (or other bullshit that complicates vehicle ownership) and then following the documented procedures and updating other like-minded owners on vehicle forums so that everyone else can do the same. In the process some forum threads would pick up hundreds of posts over a decade or more so that removal of every nut, bolt, screw, plastic plug, etc is documented with photos, allowing anyone with the vehicle to see exactly how to take ownership of the vehicle from the manufacturer. True old-school old manning involves not only removal of all the bullshit, but also covers all cosmetic changes to the vehicle that would be needed to eliminate all signs that any of the offending components were ever installed and would include things like how to accomplish all the trim and body work necessary to permanently fill all the holes in the vehicle like antenna penetrations through the vehicle body and plastic trim mods to fill holes that formerly held buttons or switches that no longer exist. In the process, old-school old manning would attack the software used in the vehicle, removing all the offending functionality with a custom flash tool so that the only software running on the vehicle after all the mods are completed would be that which controls and monitors engine and transmission functionality since that is actually the only software on a vehicle that adds value by allowing the vehicle owner to track operating efficiency in real time.

behnamoh 2y ago

I hate touchscreen buttons too and unfortunately all EVs I've seen have adopted that. I wonder if there are EVs with good old fashioned mechanical buttons.

wkat4242 2y ago
Safety agencies in Europe are already pushing to bring these back: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-back-buttons-to-get-good-safety-scores-in-europe/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/03/carmakers-must-bring-ba...
natch 2y ago
Many EVs have a sensible amount of buttons, and you generally don’t need the touchscreen for driving or much else for that matter. I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting. Around here (where we have many immigrants and some odd practices) I’ve seen people with a towel hanging over their screen while driving, to protect it like a dust cover I guess. The one thing you might argue I do need from my screen is the speed, which is very easy to see and usually not needed in the flow of traffic. The outcry against screens is just misinformed imho. My car has plenty of mechanical buttons.
- behnamoh 2y ago
  What model is your car?
  - natch 2y ago
    3
- tremon 2y ago
  I can even keep driving while the whole system is rebooting At least you're still acknowledging the abysmal state of modern cars by including this statement. Why on earth would anyone expect otherwise from a car?
  - 2y ago

johnea 2y ago

I just bought a used 2023 Nissan Leaf. Fully EV, real buttons and knobs, and of course the model is cancelled. The original tracking was 2G cellular, later updated to 3G cellular. 2G is long depricated, and 3G is already shutdown in many places. This is a great car! Which explains why it's no longer available. It doesn't meet modern american needs, like being at least as large as a small building, or having 0 visibility over the hood, or costing at least $75K. (p.s. I paid $15K for mine, with 18K miles on the odometer and 150 miles of battery range) But if you're into retro, like buttons and knobs, I highly recommend it... p.s. I have to wonder if the data breach doesn't affect ICE cars as well? Would they use a separate surveilance system?

steelframe 2y ago
I've owned two LEAFs. Fantastic vehicle. I only got rid of it when I realized all the cars around me were only getting bigger and heavier, and I felt I needed to get an SUV to defend myself against that.
grakker 2y ago
I bought a used '14 Leaf in '16. It has been a great car with very little battery degradation. Sure, I'm not going to be taking it on any long trips, but for 90% of my driving it is great. I paid $11k for it. Best car purchase I've made in 30+ years of car ownership.
dboreham 2y ago
That's amazing considering 2023 was only last year.

geor9e 2y ago

Just to be clear, this breach mostly affects non-EV cars. Even my stick shift, manual window crank car came with a hidden cellular data modem, collecting my GPS location by default.

natch 2y ago

One person’s useless extra is another person’s collision avoidance system, AC, music system… I like extras when they make sense.

prmoustache 2y ago

You can convert an old car to EV. There are comoanies speciliazing in this, mostly to convert classics that needed a ton of maintenance. Expensive yes but might be worth it if you value your privacy.

bdangubic 2y ago
me thinks anyone with a cell phone in this year of our Lord 2024 should not say they worry about privacy in any context. instead of converting old car to EV I’d start by converting a rotary phone to a portable one :)
whimsicalism 2y ago
only worth it if you really value the environment, your privacy, but not your life
geor9e 2y ago
How is a complete rebuild of a car your go-to solution to an easily accessible cellular modem powered through the fuse box
- AngryData 2y ago
  I agree it shouldn't be necessary, but its not like replacing a motor and drivetrain on a vehicle is some super rare thing either, and often still far cheaper than buying a brand new car.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Is it the case? Or is the fuse shared for something else that happens to be useful/important for the operation of the vehicle? I'd be surprised if there was a dedicated fuse for only a modem really, especially in an EV or hybrid.