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I pay more than that to go back to my hometown by TGV which is less than 200km away from Paris and that’s with a subscription giving access to preferential pric

I pay more than that to go back to my hometown by TGV which is less than 200km away from Paris and that’s with a subscription giving access to preferential prices. There is no way Paris-Berlin is going to be this cheap. From experience I expect the train to be at least twice more expensive than flying. Having worked a few years with SNCF, it can’t be otherwise. It’s the most mismanaged company I have ever worked for, gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting.

jotaen 2y ago
I forgot to mention that the price ranges I cited refer to DB (German railway company); I’ve edited my initial post to clarify. I don’t know the pricing at SNCF (French railway company).
jcmp 2y ago
The price really depends how much in advance you are booking, DB price are outrages on the same day but unbelivable cheap three weeks before, i really dont get the business logic behind that, the spread is like 19.99 to 240
simgt 2y ago
> gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting I've heard that before, but usually from the crowd that wants to privatise the whole country anyway. I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources? Surely, the amount of money they pour onto Cap Gemini and many other consulting firms to rebuild existing systems instead of having teams in-house who could maintain them must have an impact on ticket costs...
- RandomThoughts3 2y ago
  > I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources? I have witnessed that and more like optimisation software being disabled to avoid cutting into overtime. Just go take a look at how drivers are paid and where their comp comes from. It’s all public knowledge. Take a look at the recurring reports from the court of auditors or talk with anyone working there. We are talking about a company in which the two main unions are openly Trotskyist and which has a permanent strike warning by rotating between union to open one in defiance of French law. This is not drum beating for privatisation by the way (even if all the formerly public French companies I had the misfortune to work for are fairly mismanaged but nothing as bad as SNCF thankfully). I am sure with enough reforms it could work while being public. I mean Singapore manages so it’s not impossible. It’s just impossible to wonder why France is in such a sorry state after having working for anything publicly managed in France. The French state carves exception for itself in all the labour laws because they know their administration is so poor they can’t respect them.
  - inferiorhuman 2y ago
    As an American reading this I feel like there's some nuance being lost in translation. Taken to their logical extremes we've seen what things like optimization software (East Palestine), banning strikes (PATCO and current ATC staffing woes), privatization (ATC again — see any video on youtube about the KSQL controller), and weak labor laws (pretty much every fatigue related crash e.g. Colgan Air) bring about. And it's not pretty. Certainly privatization can work. JR seems to have a decent reputation (obviously not without fault). But gaming things like overtime rules is a cultural problem, one that you're not going to solve with mandates or privatization. For quite a while the drivers at San Francisco's public transit agency were forbidden to strike. Instead you'd get sickouts and work slowdowns.
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      > As an American reading this The working conditions at SNCF are not even imaginable for an American. We are taking unlimited sick days, between 28 and 38 days off a year excluding sick days, 10 bank holidays, retirement between 50 and 60 with pensions calculated on the last few years of work, subvention on train tickets for family members. That’s while working less than 40 hours a week and despite that they still manage to strike at least a week a year generally when it’s the most annoying for people actually working.
rand0m4r 2y ago
Before leaving France I often travelled by train and felt exactly the same way: a total ripoff for the service they offer...In Spain you'll also get trains that arrive late but they're usually cleaner and the price is much more affordable, and they don't go on strike as often as in strike land.
- noprocrasted 2y ago
  At least French trains actually work most of the time. UK is just as bad pricing wise but the service is so much worse.
  - rand0m4r 2y ago
    I've read about that, and it definitely seems like a shit show. It's about time these things change. Since I got here I mostly travel by train and I know that it's a privilege, it should be the norm in these developed countries. Anyway, hang in there and good luck.
rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
Where's your hometown and when do you travel? That's not my experience at all. I live in France with no car and I don't fly domestic (obviously). I'll do Paris to Lyon (400 km) during peak holidays in next few days. That's €192 back and forth, for 2 persons. And I don't have any preferential prices. I'll go further than Lyon, right to a ski station actually. That's another €100 for 2 persons, back and forth. So that's about 1300 km at €150 /pax at one of the most expensive time of the year.

jotaen 2y ago

I forgot to mention that the price ranges I cited refer to DB (German railway company); I’ve edited my initial post to clarify. I don’t know the pricing at SNCF (French railway company).

jcmp 2y ago

The price really depends how much in advance you are booking, DB price are outrages on the same day but unbelivable cheap three weeks before, i really dont get the business logic behind that, the spread is like 19.99 to 240

simgt 2y ago

> gangrened by unions which fight tooth and nails to preserve advantages which reasons to exist disappeared decades ago. Unions review the full trains planning with management before it’s validated and veto any optimisations which would cut overtime or might impact compensations without any regards for customers. It’s revolting I've heard that before, but usually from the crowd that wants to privatise the whole country anyway. I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources? Surely, the amount of money they pour onto Cap Gemini and many other consulting firms to rebuild existing systems instead of having teams in-house who could maintain them must have an impact on ticket costs...

RandomThoughts3 2y ago
> I understand that you're claiming to have witnessed it, but do you have some sources? I have witnessed that and more like optimisation software being disabled to avoid cutting into overtime. Just go take a look at how drivers are paid and where their comp comes from. It’s all public knowledge. Take a look at the recurring reports from the court of auditors or talk with anyone working there. We are talking about a company in which the two main unions are openly Trotskyist and which has a permanent strike warning by rotating between union to open one in defiance of French law. This is not drum beating for privatisation by the way (even if all the formerly public French companies I had the misfortune to work for are fairly mismanaged but nothing as bad as SNCF thankfully). I am sure with enough reforms it could work while being public. I mean Singapore manages so it’s not impossible. It’s just impossible to wonder why France is in such a sorry state after having working for anything publicly managed in France. The French state carves exception for itself in all the labour laws because they know their administration is so poor they can’t respect them.
- inferiorhuman 2y ago
  As an American reading this I feel like there's some nuance being lost in translation. Taken to their logical extremes we've seen what things like optimization software (East Palestine), banning strikes (PATCO and current ATC staffing woes), privatization (ATC again — see any video on youtube about the KSQL controller), and weak labor laws (pretty much every fatigue related crash e.g. Colgan Air) bring about. And it's not pretty. Certainly privatization can work. JR seems to have a decent reputation (obviously not without fault). But gaming things like overtime rules is a cultural problem, one that you're not going to solve with mandates or privatization. For quite a while the drivers at San Francisco's public transit agency were forbidden to strike. Instead you'd get sickouts and work slowdowns.
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    > As an American reading this The working conditions at SNCF are not even imaginable for an American. We are taking unlimited sick days, between 28 and 38 days off a year excluding sick days, 10 bank holidays, retirement between 50 and 60 with pensions calculated on the last few years of work, subvention on train tickets for family members. That’s while working less than 40 hours a week and despite that they still manage to strike at least a week a year generally when it’s the most annoying for people actually working.

rand0m4r 2y ago

Before leaving France I often travelled by train and felt exactly the same way: a total ripoff for the service they offer...In Spain you'll also get trains that arrive late but they're usually cleaner and the price is much more affordable, and they don't go on strike as often as in strike land.

noprocrasted 2y ago
At least French trains actually work most of the time. UK is just as bad pricing wise but the service is so much worse.
- rand0m4r 2y ago
  I've read about that, and it definitely seems like a shit show. It's about time these things change. Since I got here I mostly travel by train and I know that it's a privilege, it should be the norm in these developed countries. Anyway, hang in there and good luck.

rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago

Where's your hometown and when do you travel? That's not my experience at all. I live in France with no car and I don't fly domestic (obviously). I'll do Paris to Lyon (400 km) during peak holidays in next few days. That's €192 back and forth, for 2 persons. And I don't have any preferential prices. I'll go further than Lyon, right to a ski station actually. That's another €100 for 2 persons, back and forth. So that's about 1300 km at €150 /pax at one of the most expensive time of the year.