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Very honestly hope this stuff is all gated behind eu-only products/flags. The thing that EU regulators don't seem to get is that I (and many others) have knowi

Very honestly hope this stuff is all gated behind eu-only products/flags. The thing that EU regulators don't seem to get is that I (and many others) have knowingly and intentionally opted in to this walled garden. It's simple, it generally works, it's relatively secure, and I don't give a half a shit about the cost. I do not want or need competition to drive down the price because I do not care about the price. It's a luxury product. If the end result of this regulation was better software, better hardware, and better co-design, then I'd be all for it, but this just isn't going to be the case. We're just going to end up wading through sea of shitty, malware-ridden third-party bullshit that provides near-zero benefit to mainline apple consumers. At least as likely as a positive outcome is that the experience for mainline apple consumers will get worse because Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability instead of feature development.

beanjuiceII 2y ago
long as all companies can do this same thing, I'm ok with it..but right now it does feel like apple gets away with a ton more than everyone else
irusensei 2y ago
I wish there was a way to move my account to the US so I can get the best experience and tools instead of having to live through this digital iron curtain the EU regulators created. Who is using alternative app stores anyway? I surely don't.
- anon7000 2y ago
  Since when is forcing a company to give you more options considered an “iron curtain”?
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    It's wild to watch hackers say shit that could have come straight outta the Apple marketing/legal department verbatim.
    - irusensei 2y ago
      I can hack my desktop machine all I want. I prefer my phone walled. If I ever wanted to hack my phone I would buy some pixel device.
      - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
        How will you be forced to hack your phone?
      - kelnos 2y ago
        So your position is that if you personally don't want to be able to do something, then it's fine for the manufacturer to prohibit others from doing that thing if they want to?
  - irusensei 2y ago
    Features are not arriving here and likely won't in their original form because Apple needs to adapt to local regulations... which I don't care. Just the other day some stupid rule came out forcing developers even the smaller ones to publish their address which prompted non EU developers to just unregister their apps on the region. Yes. It's an iron curtain and another stupid outcome of misguided EU regulations that might have good intentions but end ruining everything like GDPR cookie modals.
anon7000 2y ago
Any kind of interoperability is optional to you to use, so why would you want Apple to force you to not even have the choice if you wanted it? Apple has vast amounts of extra money, so it’s hard to imagine why they’d be forced to stop dedicating resources to other features.
szvsw 2y ago
> It's a luxury product. 25-30% of smartphone owners have an iPhone. Something like 1.3b active iPhone users. That seems decidedly non-luxury. Neither here nor there but that’s part of your argument that seems pretty flawed (ie: it’s a luxury product so we shouldn’t have to worry about the vagaries of “anti/pro-consumer behavior, competition etc”). Sure most of Apple’s other products are in the more to much more expensive end of their categories, but the iPhone’s market penetration definitely makes the luxury categorization wrong IMO, even if it is expensive. Anyways, your entire argument effectively boils down to “this problem does not affect me, therefore it is not a problem; I don’t care if there is a monopoly on some product or service or lock-in or anything because I’m fine with it, I like the service and have no plans on leaving anyways” - which is a position plenty of people take, and also one plenty of people disagree with, so I won’t try to argue either way with you here since you seem committed. It does seem short-sighted and generally anti-consumer to me (or like you are just evidence that their various lock-in strategies work and are good for their business - which you self-identified as being correct in re: intentionally buying into walled-garden). Anyways, that’s not to say I totally disagree - I think most of your points are generally true/or something I could at least see being true even if I don’t feel convinced (ie potentially ending up in a sea of third party crap, creating a potentially undue burden on Apple engineering etc… tho even those I find questionable and not self-evident).
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >25-30% of smartphone owners have an iPhone. Something like 1.3b active iPhone users. That seems decidedly non-luxury. iPhones cost somewhere in the realm of $1000 to $2000 give or take. Meanwhile, actually cheap smartphones still from a reputable manufacturer (eg: Samsung) can be had for at least $200 to $300 or so. So no, iPhones (and Apple products in general) are a luxury good. There is a lot more "want" than "need" involved when choosing to buy an iPhone.
  - WWLink 2y ago
    iPhones are not a luxury good by any means. You can waltz right into an Apple Store TODAY and buy yourself a $429 iPhone SE or a $599 iPhone 14. Boost mobile was giving iPhone 12s away for $99. Virtually every carrier has a free-with 2-3 year commitment deal for the iPhone 16. I live in the US where iPhones were 61.26% of smartphones sold in the US in the most recent quarter https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/us-smartphone-market-share https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/us-smartphone-market-share If you want to be fancy, get a folding phone like a Galaxy Fold or a Pixel Fold. Those do have steep discounts at times, but you're still going to have to fork up $800-1200 or so for them. Or get one of those niche phones like an Xperia 1 or an Asus ROG phone or whatever that costs >$1000 and isn't subsidized by ANY carrier.
stavros 2y ago
I see these comments, and I just completely fail to understand this viewpoint. To me, this argument is kind of like the argument against gay marriage: "I don't want other people to have the option to do something that doesn't affect me at all, because reasons". Don't like interoperability? Keep using what you're using, and be quiet. Don't like alternative app stores? Keep using the app store you're using, and be quiet. Don't like choice? Keep using the thing you were using before you had the option, and be quiet. None of this is about you, at all.
- tzekid 2y ago
  Forcing Apple to implement interop and such extra features requires a non-trivial amount of labour. That trickles down to the customer in many subtle and not so subtle ways that the parent comment mentioned (more resources and higher inter-dept. coordination ceiling for a streamlined UX, etc.) Comparing it to opinions about gay marriage makes you look dishonest, "None of this is about you, at all" makes you look plain silly
- hn3er1q 2y ago
  If Apple somehow implements interoperability perfectly, sure. But I don’t believe that they, or anyone else, can. I’m sure any API will have unforeseen consequences and bugs, and those will affect me. And I don’t really get to opt out either as eventually I’ll be forced to update my software.
- tedunangst 2y ago
  Well, I happen to like that any service I subscribe to using my phone can be unsubscribed in one click, without jumping backwards through hoops while standing on my head begging customer service to cancel and no I don't want to extend my trial at a special discounted rate. And the iPhone market is big enough that companies have to offer signup in their app. But if companies start drifting to only offering services via other stores or payments, then they will inevitably fuck up the cancel option again, and I will lose something.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
tm-infringement 2y ago
>going to end up wading through sea of shitty, malware-ridden third-party bullshit >the experience for mainline apple consumers will get worse because Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability instead of feature development. I'm skeptical, why would interoperability mean this? Concretely? You are free to buy Apple only, to maintain the first party "luxury" experience. Apple adding dev time to make their APIs interoperable means making them more robust and stops them from cheating in their privacy promises. i.e "No sharing personal data with Big Tech, except Apple." Also, Apple will add headcount if necessary to deal with EU compliance, they aren't a small startup.
WWLink 2y ago
I'm sitting here with mac/linux/windows machines, and both iphones/android phones....... What malware laden third party bullshit are you talking about? The stuff that is approved by Apple to be in the iOS App Store can be pretty heavily ridden with ads - especially the kind that pop open the App Store to show you a page selling their crappy app. But since there's no way to install system-wide app blocker on an iphone you kinda have to deal with it. [ I haven't had to deal with malware on any platform in a very very long time. It would be nice if I could run proper firefox with proper ublock origin on my iphone though.
- stavros 2y ago
  > What malware laden third party bullshit are you talking about? None. No malware-laden third-party bullshit, because that's just a straw man. If the GP doesn't want third-party app stores, there's a very simple solution to that: Don't install them on your phone.
ruthmarx 2y ago
> The thing that EU regulators don't seem to get is that I (and many others) have knowingly and intentionally opted in to this walled garden. The walled garden shouldn't be forced on everyone who buys a device. Having an opt out is not unreasonable. > Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability Actually, I think they put more effort into not being interoperable, so feature development should increase.
matheusmoreira 2y ago
Don't install it if you don't want it. I for one would very much like to run Linux on the "luxury" Apple products. Nobody is forcing you though.
frizlab 2y ago
Exactly.

beanjuiceII 2y ago

long as all companies can do this same thing, I'm ok with it..but right now it does feel like apple gets away with a ton more than everyone else

irusensei 2y ago

I wish there was a way to move my account to the US so I can get the best experience and tools instead of having to live through this digital iron curtain the EU regulators created. Who is using alternative app stores anyway? I surely don't.

anon7000 2y ago
Since when is forcing a company to give you more options considered an “iron curtain”?
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  It's wild to watch hackers say shit that could have come straight outta the Apple marketing/legal department verbatim.
  - irusensei 2y ago
    I can hack my desktop machine all I want. I prefer my phone walled. If I ever wanted to hack my phone I would buy some pixel device.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
      How will you be forced to hack your phone?
    - kelnos 2y ago
      So your position is that if you personally don't want to be able to do something, then it's fine for the manufacturer to prohibit others from doing that thing if they want to?
- irusensei 2y ago
  Features are not arriving here and likely won't in their original form because Apple needs to adapt to local regulations... which I don't care. Just the other day some stupid rule came out forcing developers even the smaller ones to publish their address which prompted non EU developers to just unregister their apps on the region. Yes. It's an iron curtain and another stupid outcome of misguided EU regulations that might have good intentions but end ruining everything like GDPR cookie modals.

anon7000 2y ago

Any kind of interoperability is optional to you to use, so why would you want Apple to force you to not even have the choice if you wanted it? Apple has vast amounts of extra money, so it’s hard to imagine why they’d be forced to stop dedicating resources to other features.

szvsw 2y ago

> It's a luxury product. 25-30% of smartphone owners have an iPhone. Something like 1.3b active iPhone users. That seems decidedly non-luxury. Neither here nor there but that’s part of your argument that seems pretty flawed (ie: it’s a luxury product so we shouldn’t have to worry about the vagaries of “anti/pro-consumer behavior, competition etc”). Sure most of Apple’s other products are in the more to much more expensive end of their categories, but the iPhone’s market penetration definitely makes the luxury categorization wrong IMO, even if it is expensive. Anyways, your entire argument effectively boils down to “this problem does not affect me, therefore it is not a problem; I don’t care if there is a monopoly on some product or service or lock-in or anything because I’m fine with it, I like the service and have no plans on leaving anyways” - which is a position plenty of people take, and also one plenty of people disagree with, so I won’t try to argue either way with you here since you seem committed. It does seem short-sighted and generally anti-consumer to me (or like you are just evidence that their various lock-in strategies work and are good for their business - which you self-identified as being correct in re: intentionally buying into walled-garden). Anyways, that’s not to say I totally disagree - I think most of your points are generally true/or something I could at least see being true even if I don’t feel convinced (ie potentially ending up in a sea of third party crap, creating a potentially undue burden on Apple engineering etc… tho even those I find questionable and not self-evident).

Dalewyn 2y ago
>25-30% of smartphone owners have an iPhone. Something like 1.3b active iPhone users. That seems decidedly non-luxury. iPhones cost somewhere in the realm of $1000 to $2000 give or take. Meanwhile, actually cheap smartphones still from a reputable manufacturer (eg: Samsung) can be had for at least $200 to $300 or so. So no, iPhones (and Apple products in general) are a luxury good. There is a lot more "want" than "need" involved when choosing to buy an iPhone.
- WWLink 2y ago
  iPhones are not a luxury good by any means. You can waltz right into an Apple Store TODAY and buy yourself a $429 iPhone SE or a $599 iPhone 14. Boost mobile was giving iPhone 12s away for $99. Virtually every carrier has a free-with 2-3 year commitment deal for the iPhone 16. I live in the US where iPhones were 61.26% of smartphones sold in the US in the most recent quarter https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/us-smartphone-market-share https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/us-smartphone-market-share If you want to be fancy, get a folding phone like a Galaxy Fold or a Pixel Fold. Those do have steep discounts at times, but you're still going to have to fork up $800-1200 or so for them. Or get one of those niche phones like an Xperia 1 or an Asus ROG phone or whatever that costs >$1000 and isn't subsidized by ANY carrier.

stavros 2y ago

I see these comments, and I just completely fail to understand this viewpoint. To me, this argument is kind of like the argument against gay marriage: "I don't want other people to have the option to do something that doesn't affect me at all, because reasons". Don't like interoperability? Keep using what you're using, and be quiet. Don't like alternative app stores? Keep using the app store you're using, and be quiet. Don't like choice? Keep using the thing you were using before you had the option, and be quiet. None of this is about you, at all.

tzekid 2y ago
Forcing Apple to implement interop and such extra features requires a non-trivial amount of labour. That trickles down to the customer in many subtle and not so subtle ways that the parent comment mentioned (more resources and higher inter-dept. coordination ceiling for a streamlined UX, etc.) Comparing it to opinions about gay marriage makes you look dishonest, "None of this is about you, at all" makes you look plain silly
hn3er1q 2y ago
If Apple somehow implements interoperability perfectly, sure. But I don’t believe that they, or anyone else, can. I’m sure any API will have unforeseen consequences and bugs, and those will affect me. And I don’t really get to opt out either as eventually I’ll be forced to update my software.
tedunangst 2y ago
Well, I happen to like that any service I subscribe to using my phone can be unsubscribed in one click, without jumping backwards through hoops while standing on my head begging customer service to cancel and no I don't want to extend my trial at a special discounted rate. And the iPhone market is big enough that companies have to offer signup in their app. But if companies start drifting to only offering services via other stores or payments, then they will inevitably fuck up the cancel option again, and I will lose something.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

tm-infringement 2y ago

>going to end up wading through sea of shitty, malware-ridden third-party bullshit >the experience for mainline apple consumers will get worse because Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability instead of feature development. I'm skeptical, why would interoperability mean this? Concretely? You are free to buy Apple only, to maintain the first party "luxury" experience. Apple adding dev time to make their APIs interoperable means making them more robust and stops them from cheating in their privacy promises. i.e "No sharing personal data with Big Tech, except Apple." Also, Apple will add headcount if necessary to deal with EU compliance, they aren't a small startup.

WWLink 2y ago

I'm sitting here with mac/linux/windows machines, and both iphones/android phones....... What malware laden third party bullshit are you talking about? The stuff that is approved by Apple to be in the iOS App Store can be pretty heavily ridden with ads - especially the kind that pop open the App Store to show you a page selling their crappy app. But since there's no way to install system-wide app blocker on an iphone you kinda have to deal with it. [ I haven't had to deal with malware on any platform in a very very long time. It would be nice if I could run proper firefox with proper ublock origin on my iphone though.

stavros 2y ago
> What malware laden third party bullshit are you talking about? None. No malware-laden third-party bullshit, because that's just a straw man. If the GP doesn't want third-party app stores, there's a very simple solution to that: Don't install them on your phone.

ruthmarx 2y ago

> The thing that EU regulators don't seem to get is that I (and many others) have knowingly and intentionally opted in to this walled garden. The walled garden shouldn't be forced on everyone who buys a device. Having an opt out is not unreasonable. > Apple will need to dedicate engineering resources to interoperability Actually, I think they put more effort into not being interoperable, so feature development should increase.

matheusmoreira 2y ago

Don't install it if you don't want it. I for one would very much like to run Linux on the "luxury" Apple products. Nobody is forcing you though.

frizlab 2y ago

Exactly.