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> I do not believe this has got anything to do with sexism > That is our culture Has it ever occurred to you that "our culture" might be a bit sexist? > Men

> I do not believe this has got anything to do with sexism > That is our culture Has it ever occurred to you that "our culture" might be a bit sexist? > Men have to approach women, or they don't get laid 1. Approach doesn't have to mean sexual harassment 2. Women can like sex too. And women can approach men too. mind blowing, no? > He probably needed to do something like that and get away with it to be happy? What? What if the "something like that" were rape? What if it were murder? This whole paragraph reeks of you not thinking women's consent/feelings on who touches them matter. > I grab my girlfriend's ass sometimes Can you really not see how this is different from grabbing the ass of a random stranger at a professional-ish conference? > Teach men how to express their sexuality in a way that works. Damn, I was really hoping you were going to end that sentence with something like "that doesn't make women very uncomfortable" or "that doesn't make women feel undervalued or disrespected". I guess this far into your post I should have realized that your "solution" would also be entirely from the man's perspective of "getting" sex from women. And herein lies the problem that both you and the men at the conference share: you view women primarily as a means to sexual gratification. If you view men primarily as intellectual peers and women first as sex objects and only secondarily as intellectual beings, that is sexism.

gavanwoolery 14y ago
News flash: all men, deep down, view (attractive) women as a potential means to their sexual gratification. We cannot suppress it, short of, you know, lopping it off. We also happen to respect, admire, love, and look up to a good deal of women...but that would not make a very interesting article to talk about that stuff. EDIT: for those who don't understand what I am saying, let me clarify: Take special note of my words above, particularly "DEEP DOWN" -- by this, I mean at the subconscious level, the id, human nature, whatever you want to call it. Yes, I can control my sex-drive like anyone else, and I don't go around raping women because I feel sexual attraction to them. Just as well, I am capable of feeling love without sexual connotations, but deep down I understand that the reason my brain loves is because it has found a worthy mate. Argue with Scientific American, not me, if you have a problem with that.
- hythloday 14y ago
  No, not all men think this way. I don't, gay men don't, and I think many men (perhaps the majority) who find women attractive don't. You don't speak for me, and I think what you're saying is vile.
  - gavanwoolery 14y ago
    Sorry, all straight men who are sexually healthy -- you know what I mean. If you are sexually healthy, I hate to break it to you, but the reason your mind loves, respects, and is otherwise polite to women is because nature has made sure that you will do whatever you can to procreate with the mates you see fit. Nature has designed your mind such that it experiences a higher order of sexual attraction, which is called love. This attraction is based on judgment of a mate in terms of their physical and mental capacity. If you do not believe me, why have you never fallen in love with an obese or dim-witted person? If you want to argue that nature has not designed you to seek reproduction...maybe you are the type of person that believes in soul-mates, one true love, and all that stuff, in which case I'm probably not the best person to argue with as our views are inherently different. Nested too deep, but to reply to the comments below: @hythloday - There are natural inclinations which we have deemed socially acceptable, and ones we have not. If you desire to murder someone, you are probably a sociopath, and obviously no one is going condone you murdering people. On the other hand, if you experience sexual attraction, you are probably normal (ask any scientist if that is hard to believe). If deep down, you desire to rape somebody, you are abnormal. If deep down, you feel sexual attraction towards someone, there is nothing wrong with that. @swa14 - Have you ever tried to argue with a believer of god (from an atheist perspective)? It is pretty fruitless, which is why I would advise to avoid it, just as I would advise arguing against me if you believe in mysticism like soul-mates. Anything which cannot be scientifically proven or disproven (like the existence of a god) generally leads to fruitless arguments.
    - hythloday 14y ago
      No, I don't know what you mean, because you seem to be saying that the definition of "sexual health" is to primarily evaluate a subset of humans on their gene-passing potential. "News flash": that's sexual dysfunction. There are a bunch of different forces at play in the "design" (random evolution to local minima) of humans. There are also a huge set of behaviours that we throw out because we've decided they're not compatible with how we want to live, among them murder, rape, and paedophilia. So if you want to make the case for your "natural" inclination towards the opposite sex, can I assume that you are also a supporter of these "natural" inclinations too?
philh 14y ago
> And women can approach men too. It is much less common for women to approach men than for men to approach women. Thus it is true (in current society, making allowances for hyperbole) that "Men have to approach women, or they don't get laid". > This whole paragraph reeks of you not thinking women's consent/feelings on who touches them matter. He was speaking descriptively, not normatively. "This is why it happened" does not imply "it is okay that it happened"; I admit that the tone might give that impression, but I'm fairly confident it was unintentional.

gavanwoolery 14y ago

News flash: all men, deep down, view (attractive) women as a potential means to their sexual gratification. We cannot suppress it, short of, you know, lopping it off. We also happen to respect, admire, love, and look up to a good deal of women...but that would not make a very interesting article to talk about that stuff. EDIT: for those who don't understand what I am saying, let me clarify: Take special note of my words above, particularly "DEEP DOWN" -- by this, I mean at the subconscious level, the id, human nature, whatever you want to call it. Yes, I can control my sex-drive like anyone else, and I don't go around raping women because I feel sexual attraction to them. Just as well, I am capable of feeling love without sexual connotations, but deep down I understand that the reason my brain loves is because it has found a worthy mate. Argue with Scientific American, not me, if you have a problem with that.

hythloday 14y ago
No, not all men think this way. I don't, gay men don't, and I think many men (perhaps the majority) who find women attractive don't. You don't speak for me, and I think what you're saying is vile.
- gavanwoolery 14y ago
  Sorry, all straight men who are sexually healthy -- you know what I mean. If you are sexually healthy, I hate to break it to you, but the reason your mind loves, respects, and is otherwise polite to women is because nature has made sure that you will do whatever you can to procreate with the mates you see fit. Nature has designed your mind such that it experiences a higher order of sexual attraction, which is called love. This attraction is based on judgment of a mate in terms of their physical and mental capacity. If you do not believe me, why have you never fallen in love with an obese or dim-witted person? If you want to argue that nature has not designed you to seek reproduction...maybe you are the type of person that believes in soul-mates, one true love, and all that stuff, in which case I'm probably not the best person to argue with as our views are inherently different. Nested too deep, but to reply to the comments below: @hythloday - There are natural inclinations which we have deemed socially acceptable, and ones we have not. If you desire to murder someone, you are probably a sociopath, and obviously no one is going condone you murdering people. On the other hand, if you experience sexual attraction, you are probably normal (ask any scientist if that is hard to believe). If deep down, you desire to rape somebody, you are abnormal. If deep down, you feel sexual attraction towards someone, there is nothing wrong with that. @swa14 - Have you ever tried to argue with a believer of god (from an atheist perspective)? It is pretty fruitless, which is why I would advise to avoid it, just as I would advise arguing against me if you believe in mysticism like soul-mates. Anything which cannot be scientifically proven or disproven (like the existence of a god) generally leads to fruitless arguments.
  - hythloday 14y ago
    No, I don't know what you mean, because you seem to be saying that the definition of "sexual health" is to primarily evaluate a subset of humans on their gene-passing potential. "News flash": that's sexual dysfunction. There are a bunch of different forces at play in the "design" (random evolution to local minima) of humans. There are also a huge set of behaviours that we throw out because we've decided they're not compatible with how we want to live, among them murder, rape, and paedophilia. So if you want to make the case for your "natural" inclination towards the opposite sex, can I assume that you are also a supporter of these "natural" inclinations too?

philh 14y ago

> And women can approach men too. It is much less common for women to approach men than for men to approach women. Thus it is true (in current society, making allowances for hyperbole) that "Men have to approach women, or they don't get laid". > This whole paragraph reeks of you not thinking women's consent/feelings on who touches them matter. He was speaking descriptively, not normatively. "This is why it happened" does not imply "it is okay that it happened"; I admit that the tone might give that impression, but I'm fairly confident it was unintentional.