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Stopped paying for Kagi after finding out that they are using Yandex for some part of the search results and are paying Yandex 2% of their revenue for that. Fo

by alde 2y ago

Stopped paying for Kagi after finding out that they are using Yandex for some part of the search results and are paying Yandex 2% of their revenue for that. For the unaware, Yandex Search is tightly integrated with the Kremlin.

nxoxn 2y ago
Interesting that you are being downvoted. This is important to some people.
pbronez 2y ago
Hmm I wasn’t aware of the revenue share setup. What’s the source for that? This was a good nudge to check in on how close Yandex is to the Russian government. Answer: way closer than they were 5 years ago. Russia basically nationalized them, and routinely modifies search results to align with the government’s preferences. https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-sad-fate-of-yandex-from-independent-tech-startup-to-kremlin-propaganda-tool https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/th...
- jks 2y ago
  The Kagi founder mentions 2% in a response to a feedback thread https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/18 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...
yabatopia 2y ago
If that’s the case, that’s really disappointing to hear. I recommend you for doing the right thing.
- usui 2y ago
  commend*
scosman 2y ago
Source please. Paying customer, would like to know more.
- alde 2y ago
  Direct quote from CEO: > yandex is about 2% of the cost of your subscription Source link: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...
lolinder 2y ago
(Locked) discussion on the Kagi feedback page: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio... Apparently this has been happening for a long time but only recently drew attention when they announced integrating images. The founder cites the 2% number as if it's supposed to make it all okay, but when it comes to principled objection to funding Russian propaganda, it's hard to argue that we should be okay as long as the number per subscriber is small. I've been a Kagi subscriber from the beginning and am up for renewal, and I've got to say here (since I can't say so there now that it's locked) that this is giving me pause. I've fought back against boycotting Russian-founded companies before (anyone remember when JetBrains came under fire?), but this is Yandex, not some little company that happens to have a Russian founder. Edit: I just want to draw attention to the fact that this subthread was the top comment and now has been downranked to the bottom. Whether that was moderator action or algorithmic, I disagree with the decision.
- 7373737373 2y ago
  Very good point about the lack of principled objection - that's pretty much anyone needs to know about this business - if they put anything else (in this case the idea of "being the best search") - over doing the right thing, it doesn't deserve to exist. When a founder's/owner's moral attitude is this unprincipled, supporting their company will only make the problem worse. "Immorality scales with the business". We are seeing this with Reddit and fake users. Kagi owners, employees and (prospective) users should ask themselves: "what good would even the best search engine be, if the world is already corrupted?" You will find what you support.
rustcleaner 2y ago
Considering I am highly skeptical of the western elite apparatus today, this is positive news to me. Yandex beats Bing (ddg) hands-down and gives Google a run for its money.
- Veen 2y ago
  It is prudent to be skeptical of the "western elite apparatus", but it is positively insane to consider the Russian apparatus preferable. I understand why some people dislike their government and country, but I don't understand why doing so makes them blind to the even more egregious failings of other states.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Thinkx220 2y ago
[flagged]
- F7F7F7 2y ago
  Kremlin vs Capitol Hill. It’s not the coin flip you want us to think it is. With that being said, I’m still a big fan of Kagi.
  - Thinkx220 2y ago
    It's a non issue if you don't live in Russia. Also not a coin flip. If you are outside of Russia using Russian based services is objectively better.
    - simion314 2y ago
      >It's a non issue if you don't live in Russia. Giving money to a criminal terrorist regime, (please no response with what about X)
      - Thinkx220 2y ago
        Couldn't care less.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > non issue if you don't live in Russia You really think the CIA has no use for non-American rubes?
    - skeeter2020 2y ago
      you pay for a service, which in turn pays for a Russian service, which is in bed with the Kremlin and used as a propaganda machine for an invasion of a sovereign nation. The two-step may be convenient for you but depending where you land it is definitely an issue, even if you don't live in Russia.
      - 2y ago
7373737373 2y ago
Shameful, I will not be renewing my subscription if they don't change this.
coconut08 2y ago
what is wrong with using it for "some part" as long as they are balancing it out with other sources? there is no such thing as a search engine that isn't biased or compromised at this point, so pulling from many sources that have different biases sounds fine to me.
- danielheath 2y ago
  The part where they're helping fund a war?
  - coconut08 2y ago
    you could turn that argument back on itself and say the same thing about american companies since america has been ravaging the middle east for decades. i like that they are using a diversity of sources with a diversity of biases for their information. i don't want them to just get their information from a single biased source in the west like literally every other search engine out there.
    - Trasmatta 2y ago
      > you could turn that argument back on itself and say the same thing about american companies since america has been ravaging the middle east for decades Why do people always turn to whataboutism rather than engaging with the criticism directly?
      - coconut08 2y ago
        i think that diversity of perspective is better than only filtering for a specific bias. i dont know how many times i need to say it before you understand me. it is in fact YOU who is deflecting rather than addressing the point. you contributed absolutely nothing with your comment.
        Veen 2y ago
        No, the deflection is yours. The theme of this thread is that some people don't want to give money to Kagi, because Kagi gives money to Yandex, which is associated with the Russian state and provides support for its war effort in Ukraine. The desirability of diverse perspectives in search has no bearing whatsoever on that subject. A non-deflective response would be something like: "I know paying money to Kagi indirectly supports Russia in its war against Ukraine, but I don't give a shit about that. What really matters is that my search results must include Kremlin propaganda alongside what I consider to be US propaganda". Now, I suspect your response is going to be something along the lines of "But Google is American and America has done lots of bad things too." So to save you some time, I'll respond in advance: That too is a deflection. It is true, but it also irrelevant to the point at hand—many Kagi users do not want their money going to the Russian state.
dyml 2y ago
Very unfortunate and caused me to cancel my subscription immediately. Any alternatives that people can recommend to someone who throughly enjoyed Kagi? I really hope they reconsider their arrangement.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  I heard Yandex has pretty good search results.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
This looks like something they should let users toggle.
Trasmatta 2y ago
Thank you, I was about to subscribe until I read this. Yandex has become / is becoming a tool for Russian propaganda, and I refuse to put money into something supporting Putin's War Machine. https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-sad-fate-of-yandex-from-independent-tech-startup-to-kremlin-propaganda-tool https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/th... > Volozh resigned as Yandex’s chief executive in June 2022 and left Russia; in August 2023, he publicly condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. After lengthy negotiations and in the face of mounting political and legal pressure, in February 2024 Yandex announced the sale of its business in Russia to an investment fund consisting of investors with close ties to the Kremlin I'm sure the Kagi team is reading this thread: you need to seriously reconsider your business relationship with the Kremlin. I somehow doubt the quality of your search is so dependent on that one search provider to make the (apparent) 2% of subscription prices worth it.
bilekas 2y ago
Wow I didn't know this .. and I just recently started a paid subscription. I'll have to cancel it now but that is a real shame.
drakonka 2y ago
Thank you; I've been a subscriber and missed this news. I'm going to unsubscribe.
yesfitz 2y ago
What do you use instead?
deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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by alde 2y ago

nxoxn 2y ago

Interesting that you are being downvoted. This is important to some people.

pbronez 2y ago

Hmm I wasn’t aware of the revenue share setup. What’s the source for that? This was a good nudge to check in on how close Yandex is to the Russian government. Answer: way closer than they were 5 years ago. Russia basically nationalized them, and routinely modifies search results to align with the government’s preferences. https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-sad-fate-of-yandex-from-independent-tech-startup-to-kremlin-propaganda-tool https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/th...

jks 2y ago
The Kagi founder mentions 2% in a response to a feedback thread https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/18 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

yabatopia 2y ago

If that’s the case, that’s really disappointing to hear. I recommend you for doing the right thing.

usui 2y ago
commend*

scosman 2y ago

Source please. Paying customer, would like to know more.

alde 2y ago
Direct quote from CEO: > yandex is about 2% of the cost of your subscription Source link: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo/19 https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

lolinder 2y ago

(Locked) discussion on the Kagi feedback page: https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integration-due-to-the-geopolitical-status-quo https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio... Apparently this has been happening for a long time but only recently drew attention when they announced integrating images. The founder cites the 2% number as if it's supposed to make it all okay, but when it comes to principled objection to funding Russian propaganda, it's hard to argue that we should be okay as long as the number per subscriber is small. I've been a Kagi subscriber from the beginning and am up for renewal, and I've got to say here (since I can't say so there now that it's locked) that this is giving me pause. I've fought back against boycotting Russian-founded companies before (anyone remember when JetBrains came under fire?), but this is Yandex, not some little company that happens to have a Russian founder. Edit: I just want to draw attention to the fact that this subthread was the top comment and now has been downranked to the bottom. Whether that was moderator action or algorithmic, I disagree with the decision.

7373737373 2y ago
Very good point about the lack of principled objection - that's pretty much anyone needs to know about this business - if they put anything else (in this case the idea of "being the best search") - over doing the right thing, it doesn't deserve to exist. When a founder's/owner's moral attitude is this unprincipled, supporting their company will only make the problem worse. "Immorality scales with the business". We are seeing this with Reddit and fake users. Kagi owners, employees and (prospective) users should ask themselves: "what good would even the best search engine be, if the world is already corrupted?" You will find what you support.

rustcleaner 2y ago

Considering I am highly skeptical of the western elite apparatus today, this is positive news to me. Yandex beats Bing (ddg) hands-down and gives Google a run for its money.

Veen 2y ago
It is prudent to be skeptical of the "western elite apparatus", but it is positively insane to consider the Russian apparatus preferable. I understand why some people dislike their government and country, but I don't understand why doing so makes them blind to the even more egregious failings of other states.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Thinkx220 2y ago

[flagged]

F7F7F7 2y ago
Kremlin vs Capitol Hill. It’s not the coin flip you want us to think it is. With that being said, I’m still a big fan of Kagi.
- Thinkx220 2y ago
  It's a non issue if you don't live in Russia. Also not a coin flip. If you are outside of Russia using Russian based services is objectively better.
  - simion314 2y ago
    >It's a non issue if you don't live in Russia. Giving money to a criminal terrorist regime, (please no response with what about X)
    - Thinkx220 2y ago
      Couldn't care less.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > non issue if you don't live in Russia You really think the CIA has no use for non-American rubes?
  - skeeter2020 2y ago
    you pay for a service, which in turn pays for a Russian service, which is in bed with the Kremlin and used as a propaganda machine for an invasion of a sovereign nation. The two-step may be convenient for you but depending where you land it is definitely an issue, even if you don't live in Russia.
    - 2y ago

7373737373 2y ago

Shameful, I will not be renewing my subscription if they don't change this.

coconut08 2y ago

what is wrong with using it for "some part" as long as they are balancing it out with other sources? there is no such thing as a search engine that isn't biased or compromised at this point, so pulling from many sources that have different biases sounds fine to me.

danielheath 2y ago
The part where they're helping fund a war?
- coconut08 2y ago
  you could turn that argument back on itself and say the same thing about american companies since america has been ravaging the middle east for decades. i like that they are using a diversity of sources with a diversity of biases for their information. i don't want them to just get their information from a single biased source in the west like literally every other search engine out there.
  - Trasmatta 2y ago
    > you could turn that argument back on itself and say the same thing about american companies since america has been ravaging the middle east for decades Why do people always turn to whataboutism rather than engaging with the criticism directly?
    - coconut08 2y ago
      i think that diversity of perspective is better than only filtering for a specific bias. i dont know how many times i need to say it before you understand me. it is in fact YOU who is deflecting rather than addressing the point. you contributed absolutely nothing with your comment.
      - Veen 2y ago
        No, the deflection is yours. The theme of this thread is that some people don't want to give money to Kagi, because Kagi gives money to Yandex, which is associated with the Russian state and provides support for its war effort in Ukraine. The desirability of diverse perspectives in search has no bearing whatsoever on that subject. A non-deflective response would be something like: "I know paying money to Kagi indirectly supports Russia in its war against Ukraine, but I don't give a shit about that. What really matters is that my search results must include Kremlin propaganda alongside what I consider to be US propaganda". Now, I suspect your response is going to be something along the lines of "But Google is American and America has done lots of bad things too." So to save you some time, I'll respond in advance: That too is a deflection. It is true, but it also irrelevant to the point at hand—many Kagi users do not want their money going to the Russian state.

dyml 2y ago

Very unfortunate and caused me to cancel my subscription immediately. Any alternatives that people can recommend to someone who throughly enjoyed Kagi? I really hope they reconsider their arrangement.

carlosjobim 2y ago
I heard Yandex has pretty good search results.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

This looks like something they should let users toggle.

Trasmatta 2y ago

Thank you, I was about to subscribe until I read this. Yandex has become / is becoming a tool for Russian propaganda, and I refuse to put money into something supporting Putin's War Machine. https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-sad-fate-of-yandex-from-independent-tech-startup-to-kremlin-propaganda-tool https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/th... > Volozh resigned as Yandex’s chief executive in June 2022 and left Russia; in August 2023, he publicly condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. After lengthy negotiations and in the face of mounting political and legal pressure, in February 2024 Yandex announced the sale of its business in Russia to an investment fund consisting of investors with close ties to the Kremlin I'm sure the Kagi team is reading this thread: you need to seriously reconsider your business relationship with the Kremlin. I somehow doubt the quality of your search is so dependent on that one search provider to make the (apparent) 2% of subscription prices worth it.

bilekas 2y ago

Wow I didn't know this .. and I just recently started a paid subscription. I'll have to cancel it now but that is a real shame.

drakonka 2y ago

Thank you; I've been a subscriber and missed this news. I'm going to unsubscribe.

yesfitz 2y ago

What do you use instead?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]