7 ms·

If you prevent government from launching technologies for every software bug / mistake, you will get a bloated government which will do everything manually incr

If you prevent government from launching technologies for every software bug / mistake, you will get a bloated government which will do everything manually increasing it's cost to taxpayers and decrease in quality of services. The key is still to launch fast and iterate over bugs especially in the realm of traffic / parking violations which at the most causes annoyances to people ( I mean the same people are willing to sit in front of Holland Tunnel for an hour )

devmor 2y ago
Seems like the premise you’re going with here is a false dichotomy. There’s no reason this project had to issue parking violations from launch - it could issue soft warnings and get the same feedback from impacted civilians to fix the issues before causing them undue distress.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  That seemed to be the plan, but the city or contracting company was too incompetent to pull it off.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  > The cameras also failed to realize that both the M79 and Bx35 bus routes were still in the “warning” phase of a new enforcement pattern – which means even legitimate infractions should not have resulted in monetary penalties.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
SoftTalker 2y ago
Maybe government tries to do too much.
- doctorpangloss 2y ago
  Okay. Do you drive? Would you support bounties for ordinary people to enforce parking?
  - ta1243 2y ago
    I suspect they want the roads to be private and then have a major corporation with no accountability issue the charges You can always vote with your wallet and not use that corporation's roads
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Would you support bounties for ordinary people to enforce parking? Honestly, why not? Let people take a photo of the offending vehicle, picture of the license plate and VIN number and tag the violation. Submit with a copy of your New York ID, and use that to filter out spam and nonsense reporters. Hell, pay a bounty for submissions that result in the city collecting a fine. (You can deduct bad submissions from said bounties.)
    - freejazz 2y ago
      Do you park in NYC? I don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information to make it clear that someone is violating parking rules, many of which are temporal. I think it would also be weird to penalize people for reports that were ultimately un-actionable. Can you point to any government function that has a similar mechanism?
      - loeg 2y ago
        > I don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information Seems like the obvious solution is: multiple photos! > Can you point to any government function that has a similar mechanism? https://www.motortrend.com/news/nyc-idling-fine-citizen-reporting-bounty/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/nyc-idling-fine-citizen-repo...
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information to make it clear that someone is violating parking rules, many of which are temporal Why does it need to be a single photo? > weird to penalize people for reports that were ultimately un-actionable To the extent I suggested penalties, it's only in reducing bounties payable. That's less a penalty than recognition of costs.
- qqqult 2y ago
  bingo
- freejazz 2y ago
  Yeah, perhaps we should just get rid of the roads in Manhattan.
myhf 2y ago
No amount of automation will have any significant effect on the size or efficiency of a bureaucracy. http://www.berglas.org/Articles/ImportantThatSoftwareFails/ImportantThatSoftwareFails.html http://www.berglas.org/Articles/ImportantThatSoftwareFails/I...
akira2501 2y ago
> you will get a bloated government which will do everything manually Like creating useless bus lanes? Then creating useless programs to write tickets to those "parked illegally" in bus lanes? Then creating useless digital waste finding a "better way" to write these pointless tickets over a pointless lane? > The key is still to launch fast The key is to get rid of things that don't work and can't provide worthwhile value to the _majority_ of tax payers.
- mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
  The bus lanes are not useless, they have measurably improved commutes, and parking in them is in fact illegal, so why the air quotes?
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > they have measurably improved commutes By how much? 1%, 5%... or? It's measured so what's the measurement? > and parking in them is in fact illegal And all you have to prove this is a snapshot. Which are not accurate and is the basis for the entire thread here. And people who didn't commit any crime have been charged. So there is clearly an open question as to how many of these pictures appear to be illegal versus how many actually are. > so why the air quotes? Those are actual quotes and you've projected your assumptions into my actions. Did it harm your ability to understand what I wrote? If not then why make an issue of it?
    - markemer 2y ago
      They meant scare quotes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scare%20quotes https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scare%20quotes While they may be “quotes” of stuff from the original (which that technically was) the intent was clear.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    Measurable and positive does not mean worthwhile. (Though I suspect that many bus lanes are in fact worthwhile but that's beside the point.) Furthermore, there's always someone who benefits and will lie with statistics to keep the gravy going.

devmor 2y ago

Seems like the premise you’re going with here is a false dichotomy. There’s no reason this project had to issue parking violations from launch - it could issue soft warnings and get the same feedback from impacted civilians to fix the issues before causing them undue distress.

JohnFen 2y ago
That seemed to be the plan, but the city or contracting company was too incompetent to pull it off.
bobthepanda 2y ago
> The cameras also failed to realize that both the M79 and Bx35 bus routes were still in the “warning” phase of a new enforcement pattern – which means even legitimate infractions should not have resulted in monetary penalties.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

SoftTalker 2y ago

Maybe government tries to do too much.

doctorpangloss 2y ago
Okay. Do you drive? Would you support bounties for ordinary people to enforce parking?
- ta1243 2y ago
  I suspect they want the roads to be private and then have a major corporation with no accountability issue the charges You can always vote with your wallet and not use that corporation's roads
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Would you support bounties for ordinary people to enforce parking? Honestly, why not? Let people take a photo of the offending vehicle, picture of the license plate and VIN number and tag the violation. Submit with a copy of your New York ID, and use that to filter out spam and nonsense reporters. Hell, pay a bounty for submissions that result in the city collecting a fine. (You can deduct bad submissions from said bounties.)
  - freejazz 2y ago
    Do you park in NYC? I don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information to make it clear that someone is violating parking rules, many of which are temporal. I think it would also be weird to penalize people for reports that were ultimately un-actionable. Can you point to any government function that has a similar mechanism?
    - loeg 2y ago
      > I don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information Seems like the obvious solution is: multiple photos! > Can you point to any government function that has a similar mechanism? https://www.motortrend.com/news/nyc-idling-fine-citizen-reporting-bounty/ https://www.motortrend.com/news/nyc-idling-fine-citizen-repo...
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > don't think a single photograph is going to convey sufficient information to make it clear that someone is violating parking rules, many of which are temporal Why does it need to be a single photo? > weird to penalize people for reports that were ultimately un-actionable To the extent I suggested penalties, it's only in reducing bounties payable. That's less a penalty than recognition of costs.
qqqult 2y ago
bingo
freejazz 2y ago
Yeah, perhaps we should just get rid of the roads in Manhattan.

myhf 2y ago

No amount of automation will have any significant effect on the size or efficiency of a bureaucracy. http://www.berglas.org/Articles/ImportantThatSoftwareFails/ImportantThatSoftwareFails.html http://www.berglas.org/Articles/ImportantThatSoftwareFails/I...

akira2501 2y ago

> you will get a bloated government which will do everything manually Like creating useless bus lanes? Then creating useless programs to write tickets to those "parked illegally" in bus lanes? Then creating useless digital waste finding a "better way" to write these pointless tickets over a pointless lane? > The key is still to launch fast The key is to get rid of things that don't work and can't provide worthwhile value to the _majority_ of tax payers.

mrgoldenbrown 2y ago
The bus lanes are not useless, they have measurably improved commutes, and parking in them is in fact illegal, so why the air quotes?
- akira2501 2y ago
  > they have measurably improved commutes By how much? 1%, 5%... or? It's measured so what's the measurement? > and parking in them is in fact illegal And all you have to prove this is a snapshot. Which are not accurate and is the basis for the entire thread here. And people who didn't commit any crime have been charged. So there is clearly an open question as to how many of these pictures appear to be illegal versus how many actually are. > so why the air quotes? Those are actual quotes and you've projected your assumptions into my actions. Did it harm your ability to understand what I wrote? If not then why make an issue of it?
  - markemer 2y ago
    They meant scare quotes. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scare%20quotes https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scare%20quotes While they may be “quotes” of stuff from the original (which that technically was) the intent was clear.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Measurable and positive does not mean worthwhile. (Though I suspect that many bus lanes are in fact worthwhile but that's beside the point.) Furthermore, there's always someone who benefits and will lie with statistics to keep the gravy going.