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This was such a fascinating read—it really resonated with me. A few years ago, my girlfriend and I started a small coffee shop in Hanoi as a fun side project, a
by MKoberger 2y ago
This was such a fascinating read—it really resonated with me. A few years ago, my girlfriend and I started a small coffee shop in Hanoi as a fun side project, and I was struck by the parallels between Vietnam's coffee history and the issues you outline here about Kenya.
Vietnam, like Kenya, emerged from a coffee industry shaped by colonial-era inequities. Yet through reforms, robust state support for smallholder farmers, and a focus on infrastructure, Vietnam has positioned itself as a global coffee powerhouse. While the initial focus on robusta was quantity-driven, there’s now a shift toward quality, which is helping Vietnamese coffee expand into new markets.
Kenya’s situation feels similar yet distinct. It has an unparalleled coffee heritage, and with thoughtful reforms—empowering smallholders, encouraging direct trade, and finding the right balance between quality and disease-resistant hybrids—it could reclaim its standing on the global stage.
The article beautifully captures the systemic challenges and the hope for transformation. I really believe Kenya’s coffee can rise again, stronger and fairer, just as Vietnam is starting to do. It’s inspiring to see how coffee connects people and places across the world in such unique ways!
- paulette449 2y ago> A few years ago, my girlfriend and I started a small coffee shop in Hanoi as a fun side project Did it end up being the fun side project you expected?
- dyauspitr 2y agoHaving done something similar in India I can say it definitely was fun. What makes it fun is there are next to no regulations so you can plop down in a place one day and just sell food.
- 9dev 2y agoHah, try that in Germany. You shouldn’t even be giving food a sideways glance without your permits at hand. And don’t you dare to even consider selling beer alongside your snacks.
- timdiggerm 2y agoI wonder why
- heraldgeezer 2y agoYes but in Germany food is safe. In India? Heck no. There is a reason for all regulations.
- silisili 2y agoIs it similar to the US in that in theory you need a ton of permits, but in reality everyone kinda turns a blind eye to it unless you get too big/at a big venue? For example, in the past year I've seen a guy selling tamales from his car trunk, someone selling candy apples from a cooler on the side of the road, one person making crab boils from their house, and a ton of people doing small batch type things on FB marketplace. Most of these would violate our local cottage laws, but I've seen police officers buying the tamales for example! I have no doubt if someone got sick they could probably win a civil case of sorts, but I don't think I've seen or heard of any kind of attempt to shut down any of this via law.
- dyauspitr 2y agoUsually in the US, unless it’s a massive city, vendors selling things out of their yards/trunk are ignored. It’s when you have a permanent/semi permanent stall that things get serious. Also selling things out of your trunk opens you up to significant liability risks if someone gets sick and can find you.
- danielhep 2y agoDepends heavily on the city too. I think this kind of thing is more accepted in NYC and LA with big immigrant communities from countries with more informal economies, but in Seattle it gets shut down quickly.
- ungreased0675 2y agoIt’s because the best tamales come out of the back trunk of a car, or a cooler behind the counter of your local Mexican bakery. It’d be a tragedy to lose those flavors.
- dehrmann 2y agoThe standard insight is there's a difference between liking coffee, liking hanging out in a coffee shop, and running a coffee shop. Running a coffee shop is 98% HR, accounting, and customer service, and 2% coffee.
- glimshe 2y agoNot very different from running a game company!
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoRunning a game company is more than 2% coffee :)
- MichaelZuo 2y agoSounds like there’s room for innovation. Perhaps a teetotaller game studio where only tea, water, maybe some juices, are accepted.
- throwup238 2y agoThat’s how you get Star Citizen.
- Arrath 2y agoOr, don't get it.
- grogenaut 2y agoCoffee Machine, Right-hand Dispenser—The dispenser in all coffee machines at Valve that holds the decaffeinated coffee beans. To the best of our knowledge, these have never needed to be refilled. For all we know, the beans are decorative plastic
- SoftTalker 2y agoOr any other "passion" or hobby that you try to turn into a business. You end up spending the vast majority of your time on the business, and very little on the thing you once enjoyed.
- MKoberger 2y agoHaha, so… My girlfriend manages several Airbnbs around Hanoi, and many of these buildings have ground floors designed for small businesses—something that’s very common in Vietnam. In 2019, we decided to turn the ground floors of her rental locations into coffee shops and finished setting them up just in time for December that year! Of course, as luck would have it, COVID-19 wasn’t exactly great for either Airbnb rentals or coffee shops. Since then, we’ve both shifted focus to other projects, but we’re definitely planning to give it another shot in the future when the timing feels right!
- retinaros 2y agoAll the vietnamese coffee that I tried in europe (even in hype shops) tasted like american “french” roast aka burnt bad coffee. Could you recommend ways to try nice coffees from vietnam?
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoFind another roaster that doesn’t burn it? Most coffee is shipped in raw bean form and roasted at the destination. So bad roasts are not the fault of Vietnamese coffee per se.
- throw_pm23 2y agoThe problem is if it is bad, they have to burn it to mask the taste. Same with most meats too.
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoI don’t follow - how do you mask a bad taste (bad coffee) with a bad taste (burned coffee)? I.e. if it’s going to taste bad then use a lighter roast, cheaper and faster anyway.
- kdmtctl 2y agoOne could pretend that beans are intentionally burned, "The Vietnamese Way", regardless of the source material quality. Lighter roast would differ from batch to batch with varying not-so-good taste, but charcoal is always a charcoal.
- 0x457 2y agoBurnt coffee taste like burnt coffee. Vietnamese drink coffee with 1/4 can of condensed milk in it. Bad coffee beans if not roasted to charcoal state taste even worse. Argument that that most of available coffee in VN is made from pretty bad beans, so roasters have no other way to roast it to that level. That's it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- charlysl 2y agoIt was the DDR who developed the modern Vietnamese coffee industry, collapsing before it could benefit. Beginning in 1975, largely parallel with the coffee crisis in East Germany, the production of Robusta coffee began in Vietnam. Robusta plants grow faster, contain more caffeine, suit the climate of the Vietnamese Central Highlands, and lend themselves better to mechanized harvesting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_coffee_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_German_coffee_crisis
- alephnerd 2y agoIt was a horrible time in Gia Lai at the time. My in-laws were part of the generation of displaced Vietnamese who were resettled in the Central Highlands for coffee cultivation back in the 70s-90s, but this mass migration of ethnic Vietnamese pissed off the indigenous Jarai and other Hmong+Khmer ethnic groups, which led to a sustained insurgency and a lot of horrid human rights abuses. The current GenSec of Vietnam (To Lam) is notable for his career as the butcher of Gia Lai during his tenure there as part of the MPS.
- charlysl 2y agoVery interesting. And there is still ethnic tension in that area to this day.
- alephnerd 2y agoIdk. I don't want to try digging and pissing off the local MPS. I think the insurgency is largely dead, but the Central Highlands remains very poor and smuggling+corruption are sustained issues.