4 ms·

Regardless I would have carefully taken these down and put them in a box on the day I moved in. And then called them (or better, written to them) and given them

by jhugo 2y ago

Regardless I would have carefully taken these down and put them in a box on the day I moved in. And then called them (or better, written to them) and given them a reasonable amount of time (maybe a couple months) to collect their property, making it clear that I would dispose of it after that time expired.

sidewndr46 2y ago
Why? After cutting the power to them I'd tell the company if they wanted them back I can take them down and ship them back at my standard rate of $500/hr
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
> given them a reasonable amount of time (maybe a couple months) to collect their property Why waste your own time with this? If it's your house, you own everything inside. I would put all the cameras in the trash and forget about it.
- maccard 2y ago
  Doing that is illegal in many places. Here’s a decent summary in the Uk [0] [0] https://jebaring.co.uk/involuntary-bailee-what-to-do/ https://jebaring.co.uk/involuntary-bailee-what-to-do/
  - behringer 2y ago
    It's also just not very nice. It is ok to be nice to people. Do unto others and all that. And before I get called naive, courts do look very favorably upon defendants that are nice.
    - j-bos 2y ago
      It's not nice to stick eyeballs under people's vestiments. It's not nice to put hands on a stranger. Bad faith actions can be responded to without malice but there is no need to be nice. Non consentual cameras in a private dwelling are never good faith.
      - behringer 2y ago
        why would anyone leave such a system running?
        bigallen 2y ago
        Maybe it’s a prepaid annual membership and the owner forgot/died/didn’t cancel?
    - maccard 2y ago
      I completely agree. Involuntary bailee in the UK is one of the nastier parts of the law (IMO) it penalises you for being a decent person and gives the power to the asshole. It’s ripe for abuse.
- madaxe_again 2y ago
  Not so. My mother bought a house in France in 1988. The previous owners had a mountain of stuff in the barn that they would come collect “soon”. 25 years passed. My mother started variously selling and disposing of their slowly rotting crap that they evidently were never going to collect, as she wanted to fix the structural issues with the barn, and their stuff was in the way, as it literally filled the entire ground floor. And then, one day, 30 years later, their children showed up, wanting to collect their inheritance. They sued. They won. She had to fork over about €100k. So no, just because you own the house, you don’t own everything in it. In Europe, it’s also common for you to buy a place, and then when you move in, you find the vendor has taken all of the wiring and plumbing with them. Sometimes they’ll even take things like doors, staircases, floors, you name it.
  - IanCal 2y ago
    > In Europe You can't just lump 27 countries with wildly differing laws together like this.
    - madaxe_again 2y ago
      Ok sure - Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands, this happens. Can’t speak for elsewhere. You have to ensure the contract of sale specifically includes things like wiring, the boiler, the radiators, flooring, light fittings and switches, because if they aren’t explicitly included, they aren’t included. There are some very odd definitions of chattels vs fixtures out there - in France, it has to be nailed to the structure to count as a fixture. If it’s screwed, glued, or otherwise not nailed down, it’s a chattel.
    - gberger 2y ago
      27 is just the EU. The whole of Europe is more like 50, which is even wilder!
  - skinkestek 2y ago
    > In Europe, it’s also common for you to buy a place, and then when you move in, you find the vendor has taken all of the wiring and plumbing with them. This is the first time I hwar of this. At least in Norway the rule is that everything that is built in stays. So table, chairs, TV, washing machine, dryer etc goes, but built in appliances and built in place furniture stays.

by jhugo 2y ago

sidewndr46 2y ago

Why? After cutting the power to them I'd tell the company if they wanted them back I can take them down and ship them back at my standard rate of $500/hr

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago

> given them a reasonable amount of time (maybe a couple months) to collect their property Why waste your own time with this? If it's your house, you own everything inside. I would put all the cameras in the trash and forget about it.

maccard 2y ago
Doing that is illegal in many places. Here’s a decent summary in the Uk [0] [0] https://jebaring.co.uk/involuntary-bailee-what-to-do/ https://jebaring.co.uk/involuntary-bailee-what-to-do/
- behringer 2y ago
  It's also just not very nice. It is ok to be nice to people. Do unto others and all that. And before I get called naive, courts do look very favorably upon defendants that are nice.
  - j-bos 2y ago
    It's not nice to stick eyeballs under people's vestiments. It's not nice to put hands on a stranger. Bad faith actions can be responded to without malice but there is no need to be nice. Non consentual cameras in a private dwelling are never good faith.
    - behringer 2y ago
      why would anyone leave such a system running?
      - bigallen 2y ago
        Maybe it’s a prepaid annual membership and the owner forgot/died/didn’t cancel?
  - maccard 2y ago
    I completely agree. Involuntary bailee in the UK is one of the nastier parts of the law (IMO) it penalises you for being a decent person and gives the power to the asshole. It’s ripe for abuse.
madaxe_again 2y ago
Not so. My mother bought a house in France in 1988. The previous owners had a mountain of stuff in the barn that they would come collect “soon”. 25 years passed. My mother started variously selling and disposing of their slowly rotting crap that they evidently were never going to collect, as she wanted to fix the structural issues with the barn, and their stuff was in the way, as it literally filled the entire ground floor. And then, one day, 30 years later, their children showed up, wanting to collect their inheritance. They sued. They won. She had to fork over about €100k. So no, just because you own the house, you don’t own everything in it. In Europe, it’s also common for you to buy a place, and then when you move in, you find the vendor has taken all of the wiring and plumbing with them. Sometimes they’ll even take things like doors, staircases, floors, you name it.
- IanCal 2y ago
  > In Europe You can't just lump 27 countries with wildly differing laws together like this.
  - madaxe_again 2y ago
    Ok sure - Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Austria, Belgium, the Netherlands, this happens. Can’t speak for elsewhere. You have to ensure the contract of sale specifically includes things like wiring, the boiler, the radiators, flooring, light fittings and switches, because if they aren’t explicitly included, they aren’t included. There are some very odd definitions of chattels vs fixtures out there - in France, it has to be nailed to the structure to count as a fixture. If it’s screwed, glued, or otherwise not nailed down, it’s a chattel.
  - gberger 2y ago
    27 is just the EU. The whole of Europe is more like 50, which is even wilder!
- skinkestek 2y ago
  > In Europe, it’s also common for you to buy a place, and then when you move in, you find the vendor has taken all of the wiring and plumbing with them. This is the first time I hwar of this. At least in Norway the rule is that everything that is built in stays. So table, chairs, TV, washing machine, dryer etc goes, but built in appliances and built in place furniture stays.