5 ms·

In practice these warrants mean that they cannot travel to any country that does recognize the ICC without being arrested, which means they almost certainly won

by DasIch 2y ago

In practice these warrants mean that they cannot travel to any country that does recognize the ICC without being arrested, which means they almost certainly won't.

jcranmer 2y ago
Just like how Putin couldn't travel to, say, South Africa, after a warrant was issued for his arrest. Oh wait, South Africa declined to enforce the ICC arrest warrant in that case. I don't see this meaningfully constraining Netanyahu's foreign travel options.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Ironic considering that South Africa was the one who pursued this case against Israel.
- runarberg 2y ago
  It would be politically very risky for any European democracy to not enforce this arrest warrant, much more so than for South Africa or Mongolia. Israel is not popular among the public in Europe, and if a government invites him for a political visit, and don’t arrest him, that government will have to pay for that in the next election (and probably sooner, with mass demonstration and public unrest). Now, lets talk about Putin’s visit to South Africa. So Putin was scheduled to visit a BRICS summit in South Africa despite the ICC arrest warrant. South Africa claimed they wouldn’t enforce the arrest warrant. People got very mad. South Africa, in response, declared that Putin would only participate in the summit remotely, where the arrest warrant couldn’t be enforced. Now this was obviously a way to bypass the ICC warrant, and the stunt did not go well in the general public. In the next election the ANC, the governing party at the time, lost their parliamentary majority for the first time since South Africa became a democracy in 1994. Now South Africans had several other reasons to ditch the ANC, but this stunt certainly didn’t help.
  - xenospn 2y ago
    [flagged]
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Oh wait, South Africa is just one country. In a great many other countries, including nearly all Western countries, the warrant is still in effect. And even in the South African case: the government's decision was considered quite tenuous, which is why Putin cancelled his visit, in was was considered to be a major diplomatic setback at the time. So at the end of the day -- the warrant still had significant effect, and fulfilled its purpose.
nickff 2y ago
ICC member Mongolia didn't arrest Putin when he visited. https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-situation-icc-pre-trial-chamber-ii-finds-mongolia-failed-cooperate-arrest-and https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-situation-icc-pre-trial...
- aguaviva 2y ago
  The fact that it's the only country he's been able to visit since the warrant was issued (aside from North Korea) indicates that, by and large -- it's working as intended.
  - ganeshkrishnan 2y ago
    >The fact that it's the only country he's been able to visit since the warrant was issued Putin has visited around 20 countries after this ICC warrant including UAE, Saudi Arabia, China, Armenia, Vietnam , India (planned), Uzbekistan ... Start here and start counting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_presidential_trips_made_by_Vladimir_Putin#2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_presiden... But I know you wont. Your response will be shifting some goal posts like "these are not real countries because they don't exist in my coloring book"
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      I stand corrected: "The fact that he's only been able to visit a relative handful of countries -- nearly all of which were traditional Cold War allies (and several of these being current or former vassal states) -- indicates that, by and large, the warrant is working as intended." BTW the number is 9, not 20.
      - nickff 2y ago
        Not grandparent, but where are you getting 9? I get 16 from the Wiki: Tajikistan Turkmenistan Iran Uzbekistan Kazakhstan Armenia Kyrgyzstan Belarus China United Arab Emirates Saudi Arabia North Korea Vietnam Azerbaijan Mongolia Turkmenistan

by DasIch 2y ago

In practice these warrants mean that they cannot travel to any country that does recognize the ICC without being arrested, which means they almost certainly won't.

jcranmer 2y ago

Just like how Putin couldn't travel to, say, South Africa, after a warrant was issued for his arrest. Oh wait, South Africa declined to enforce the ICC arrest warrant in that case. I don't see this meaningfully constraining Netanyahu's foreign travel options.

dotancohen 2y ago
Ironic considering that South Africa was the one who pursued this case against Israel.
runarberg 2y ago
It would be politically very risky for any European democracy to not enforce this arrest warrant, much more so than for South Africa or Mongolia. Israel is not popular among the public in Europe, and if a government invites him for a political visit, and don’t arrest him, that government will have to pay for that in the next election (and probably sooner, with mass demonstration and public unrest). Now, lets talk about Putin’s visit to South Africa. So Putin was scheduled to visit a BRICS summit in South Africa despite the ICC arrest warrant. South Africa claimed they wouldn’t enforce the arrest warrant. People got very mad. South Africa, in response, declared that Putin would only participate in the summit remotely, where the arrest warrant couldn’t be enforced. Now this was obviously a way to bypass the ICC warrant, and the stunt did not go well in the general public. In the next election the ANC, the governing party at the time, lost their parliamentary majority for the first time since South Africa became a democracy in 1994. Now South Africans had several other reasons to ditch the ANC, but this stunt certainly didn’t help.
- xenospn 2y ago
  [flagged]
aguaviva 2y ago
Oh wait, South Africa is just one country. In a great many other countries, including nearly all Western countries, the warrant is still in effect. And even in the South African case: the government's decision was considered quite tenuous, which is why Putin cancelled his visit, in was was considered to be a major diplomatic setback at the time. So at the end of the day -- the warrant still had significant effect, and fulfilled its purpose.

nickff 2y ago

ICC member Mongolia didn't arrest Putin when he visited. https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-situation-icc-pre-trial-chamber-ii-finds-mongolia-failed-cooperate-arrest-and https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/ukraine-situation-icc-pre-trial...

aguaviva 2y ago
The fact that it's the only country he's been able to visit since the warrant was issued (aside from North Korea) indicates that, by and large -- it's working as intended.
- ganeshkrishnan 2y ago
  >The fact that it's the only country he's been able to visit since the warrant was issued Putin has visited around 20 countries after this ICC warrant including UAE, Saudi Arabia, China, Armenia, Vietnam , India (planned), Uzbekistan ... Start here and start counting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_presidential_trips_made_by_Vladimir_Putin#2022 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_presiden... But I know you wont. Your response will be shifting some goal posts like "these are not real countries because they don't exist in my coloring book"
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    I stand corrected: "The fact that he's only been able to visit a relative handful of countries -- nearly all of which were traditional Cold War allies (and several of these being current or former vassal states) -- indicates that, by and large, the warrant is working as intended." BTW the number is 9, not 20.
    - nickff 2y ago
      Not grandparent, but where are you getting 9? I get 16 from the Wiki: Tajikistan Turkmenistan Iran Uzbekistan Kazakhstan Armenia Kyrgyzstan Belarus China United Arab Emirates Saudi Arabia North Korea Vietnam Azerbaijan Mongolia Turkmenistan