9 ms·

Exactly. You can only trust yourself [1] and should self host. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_JyDvBbZ6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_JyDvBbZ6Q

9dev 2y ago
That is an answer for an incredibly tiny fraction of the population. I'm not so much concerned about myself than society in general, and self-hosting just is not a viable solution to the problem at hand.
- chadsix 2y ago
  To be fair, it's much easier than one can imagine (try ollama on macOS for example). In the end, Apple wrote a lot of longwinded text, but the summary is "you have to trust us." I don't trust Apple - in fact, even the people we trust the most have told us soft lies here and there. Trust is a concept like an integral - you can only get to "almost" and almost is 0. So you can only trust yourself. Period.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    I don't even trust myself, I know that I'm going to mess up at some point or another.
  - lukev 2y ago
    The odds that I make a mistake in my security configuration are much higher than the odds that Apple is maliciously backdooring themselves. The PCC model doesn't guarantee they can't backdoor themselves, but it does make it more difficult for them.
    - astrange 2y ago
      You also don't have a security team and Apple does have one.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        Speak for yourself
  - killjoywashere 2y ago
    There are multiple threat models where you can't trust yourself. Your future self definitely can't trust your past self. And vice versa. If your future self has a stroke tomorrow, did your past self remember to write a living will? And renew it regularly? Will your future self remember that password? What if the kid pukes on the carpet before your past self writes it down? Your current self is not statistically reliable. Andrej Karpathy administered an imagenet challenge to himself, his brain as the machine: he got about 95%. I'm sure there are other classes of self-failure.
    - martinsnow 2y ago
      Given the code quality of projects like nextcloud. Suggestions like this makes the head and table transmugify into magnets.
  - commandersaki 2y ago
    > "you have to trust us." You have fundamentally misunderstood PCC.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Nobody promised you that real solutions would work for everyone. Performing CPR to save a life is something "an incredibly tiny fraction of the population" is trained on, but it does work when circumstances call for it. It sucks, but what are you going to do for society? Tell them all to sell their iPhones, punk out the NSA like you're Snowden incarnate? Sometimes saving yourself is the only option, unfortunately.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
remram 2y ago
Can you trust the hardware?
- killjoywashere 2y ago
  There's a niche industry that works on that problem: looking for evidence of tampering down to the semiconductor level.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    Notably https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precursor/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precurso...
- blitzar 2y ago
  If you make your own silicon can you trust that the sand hasnt been tampered with to breech your security?

9dev 2y ago

That is an answer for an incredibly tiny fraction of the population. I'm not so much concerned about myself than society in general, and self-hosting just is not a viable solution to the problem at hand.

chadsix 2y ago
To be fair, it's much easier than one can imagine (try ollama on macOS for example). In the end, Apple wrote a lot of longwinded text, but the summary is "you have to trust us." I don't trust Apple - in fact, even the people we trust the most have told us soft lies here and there. Trust is a concept like an integral - you can only get to "almost" and almost is 0. So you can only trust yourself. Period.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  I don't even trust myself, I know that I'm going to mess up at some point or another.
- lukev 2y ago
  The odds that I make a mistake in my security configuration are much higher than the odds that Apple is maliciously backdooring themselves. The PCC model doesn't guarantee they can't backdoor themselves, but it does make it more difficult for them.
  - astrange 2y ago
    You also don't have a security team and Apple does have one.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      Speak for yourself
- killjoywashere 2y ago
  There are multiple threat models where you can't trust yourself. Your future self definitely can't trust your past self. And vice versa. If your future self has a stroke tomorrow, did your past self remember to write a living will? And renew it regularly? Will your future self remember that password? What if the kid pukes on the carpet before your past self writes it down? Your current self is not statistically reliable. Andrej Karpathy administered an imagenet challenge to himself, his brain as the machine: he got about 95%. I'm sure there are other classes of self-failure.
  - martinsnow 2y ago
    Given the code quality of projects like nextcloud. Suggestions like this makes the head and table transmugify into magnets.
- commandersaki 2y ago
  > "you have to trust us." You have fundamentally misunderstood PCC.
talldayo 2y ago
Nobody promised you that real solutions would work for everyone. Performing CPR to save a life is something "an incredibly tiny fraction of the population" is trained on, but it does work when circumstances call for it. It sucks, but what are you going to do for society? Tell them all to sell their iPhones, punk out the NSA like you're Snowden incarnate? Sometimes saving yourself is the only option, unfortunately.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

remram 2y ago

Can you trust the hardware?

killjoywashere 2y ago
There's a niche industry that works on that problem: looking for evidence of tampering down to the semiconductor level.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  Notably https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precursor/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precurso...
blitzar 2y ago
If you make your own silicon can you trust that the sand hasnt been tampered with to breech your security?