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Anyone jumping up and down about MV3 while using Mac or iOS are hypocrites, since MV3 is essentially doing the same thing Safari did years ago, finally matching

Anyone jumping up and down about MV3 while using Mac or iOS are hypocrites, since MV3 is essentially doing the same thing Safari did years ago, finally matching the security and the privacy in that regard. The reduction in adblocking is so miniscule in aggregate - since declarative approach will always cover all the major advertisers - that it's not even a meaningful "trade-off".

SoftTalker 2y ago
I see boatloads of ads in Safari on iOS. To the point that web browsing on my phone is intolerable, so I don't do it.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  This is such a data-free anecdote. Which websites are showing ads? Which ad blocker did you install on iOS?
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  Which adblocker are you using? I have adguard and dont get ads on most safari sites but its just static DNS blocking so first party ad servers like youtube dont get blocked.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Why should I need an adblocker app from some third party to which I have to grant full control over my browser? Apple would be enormously popular if they included one by default. Perhaps as an option you could disable. I don't know why all browsers don't do this (well, I know why Chrome doesn't). Browsers are selected by users, they should have no obligation to show ads. Brave is the only one doing this right AFAIK. Almost all the problems with tracking and buying and selling user profiles would end if browsers just didn't show ads.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> Anyone jumping up and down about MV3 while using Mac or iOS are hypocrites, since MV3 is essentially doing the same thing Safari did years ago, iOS I'll give you, but macOS can in fact run ex. Firefox. > finally matching the security and the privacy in that regard. "Matching" inferior security+privacy is not a good thing. The only way this is an improvement if you think the blockers are malicious; otherwise a useful tool in the users interest has been made less powerful.
- drivebycomment 2y ago
  One of the most common API malware extensions use is what MV3 blocks, and adblock extension is one of the common malware vectors: https://helpcenter.getadblock.com/hc/en-us/articles/9738476845203-Concerns-about-AdBlock-and-malware https://helpcenter.getadblock.com/hc/en-us/articles/97384768... https://www.wired.com/story/fake-chrome-extensions-malware/ https://www.wired.com/story/fake-chrome-extensions-malware/ This has been never ending.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    Okay, if you absolutely must then make that specific API require extra audit approval from the extension store, but breaking it outright is throwing out the baby with the bathwater; in a world where the FBI outright recommends an adblocker because ads are such a strong malware vector ( https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/22/fbi-ad-blocker/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/22/fbi-ad-blocker/ ), it's irresponsible to undermine uBo.
    - kccqzy 2y ago
      Nobody likes extra audit approvals. The platform doesn't want to spend resources doing the audit. The developers don't want to be audited. The Firefox version of uBlock Origin Lite was pulled due to unsatisfactory audit process: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41707418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41707418
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
kuhsaft 2y ago
It’s similar, but not the same. Safari lets you dynamically generate rules that are then compiled for privacy and efficiency. The limits were increased to 150000 rules per content blocker due to user demands [1]. And each extension can have multiple content blockers. MV3 has a measly 30000 static rule limit. These rules are included with the extension and cannot be updated dynamically. And a 5000 dynamic rules limit. [2] EDIT: Chrome now has a 300000 shared pool for static rules for extensions that go over their 30000 limit. And a 30000 dynamic rule limit [3]. [1] https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-for-safari-1-11.html https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-for-safari-1-11.html [2] https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-mv3-beta.html https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-mv3-beta.html [3] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concepts/content-filtering#bundle_filter_rules_with_your_extension https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concept...
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  The limit is 330000 rules: "Based on input from the extension community, we also increased the number of rulesets for declarativeNetRequest, allowing extensions to bundle up to 330,000 static rules and dynamically add a further 30,000." https://blog.chromium.org/2024/05/manifest-v2-phase-out-begins.html#:~:text=Based%20on%20input%20from%20the%20extension%20community%2C%20we%20also%20increased%20the%20number%20of%20rulesets%20for%20declarativeNetRequest%2C%20allowing%20extensions%20to%20bundle%20up%20to%20330%2C000%20static%20rules%20and%20dynamically%20add%20a%20further%2030%2C000 https://blog.chromium.org/2024/05/manifest-v2-phase-out-begi....
  - kuhsaft 2y ago
    It looks like it’s a shared quota now with a minimum per extension [1]. Still sucks that the rules are static though. AdGuard devised a method to diff ruleset changes with the built in rules to generate dynamic rules between extension updates. So, I guess it works. [1] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concepts/content-filtering#bundle_filter_rules_with_your_extension https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concept...

SoftTalker 2y ago

I see boatloads of ads in Safari on iOS. To the point that web browsing on my phone is intolerable, so I don't do it.

kccqzy 2y ago
This is such a data-free anecdote. Which websites are showing ads? Which ad blocker did you install on iOS?
HDThoreaun 2y ago
Which adblocker are you using? I have adguard and dont get ads on most safari sites but its just static DNS blocking so first party ad servers like youtube dont get blocked.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Why should I need an adblocker app from some third party to which I have to grant full control over my browser? Apple would be enormously popular if they included one by default. Perhaps as an option you could disable. I don't know why all browsers don't do this (well, I know why Chrome doesn't). Browsers are selected by users, they should have no obligation to show ads. Brave is the only one doing this right AFAIK. Almost all the problems with tracking and buying and selling user profiles would end if browsers just didn't show ads.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

> Anyone jumping up and down about MV3 while using Mac or iOS are hypocrites, since MV3 is essentially doing the same thing Safari did years ago, iOS I'll give you, but macOS can in fact run ex. Firefox. > finally matching the security and the privacy in that regard. "Matching" inferior security+privacy is not a good thing. The only way this is an improvement if you think the blockers are malicious; otherwise a useful tool in the users interest has been made less powerful.

drivebycomment 2y ago
One of the most common API malware extensions use is what MV3 blocks, and adblock extension is one of the common malware vectors: https://helpcenter.getadblock.com/hc/en-us/articles/9738476845203-Concerns-about-AdBlock-and-malware https://helpcenter.getadblock.com/hc/en-us/articles/97384768... https://www.wired.com/story/fake-chrome-extensions-malware/ https://www.wired.com/story/fake-chrome-extensions-malware/ This has been never ending.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  Okay, if you absolutely must then make that specific API require extra audit approval from the extension store, but breaking it outright is throwing out the baby with the bathwater; in a world where the FBI outright recommends an adblocker because ads are such a strong malware vector ( https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/22/fbi-ad-blocker/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/22/fbi-ad-blocker/ ), it's irresponsible to undermine uBo.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    Nobody likes extra audit approvals. The platform doesn't want to spend resources doing the audit. The developers don't want to be audited. The Firefox version of uBlock Origin Lite was pulled due to unsatisfactory audit process: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41707418 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41707418
    - Dylan16807 2y ago

kuhsaft 2y ago

It’s similar, but not the same. Safari lets you dynamically generate rules that are then compiled for privacy and efficiency. The limits were increased to 150000 rules per content blocker due to user demands [1]. And each extension can have multiple content blockers. MV3 has a measly 30000 static rule limit. These rules are included with the extension and cannot be updated dynamically. And a 5000 dynamic rules limit. [2] EDIT: Chrome now has a 300000 shared pool for static rules for extensions that go over their 30000 limit. And a 30000 dynamic rule limit [3]. [1] https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-for-safari-1-11.html https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-for-safari-1-11.html [2] https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-mv3-beta.html https://adguard.com/en/blog/adguard-mv3-beta.html [3] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concepts/content-filtering#bundle_filter_rules_with_your_extension https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concept...

nolist_policy 2y ago
The limit is 330000 rules: "Based on input from the extension community, we also increased the number of rulesets for declarativeNetRequest, allowing extensions to bundle up to 330,000 static rules and dynamically add a further 30,000." https://blog.chromium.org/2024/05/manifest-v2-phase-out-begins.html#:~:text=Based%20on%20input%20from%20the%20extension%20community%2C%20we%20also%20increased%20the%20number%20of%20rulesets%20for%20declarativeNetRequest%2C%20allowing%20extensions%20to%20bundle%20up%20to%20330%2C000%20static%20rules%20and%20dynamically%20add%20a%20further%2030%2C000 https://blog.chromium.org/2024/05/manifest-v2-phase-out-begi....
- kuhsaft 2y ago
  It looks like it’s a shared quota now with a minimum per extension [1]. Still sucks that the rules are static though. AdGuard devised a method to diff ruleset changes with the built in rules to generate dynamic rules between extension updates. So, I guess it works. [1] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concepts/content-filtering#bundle_filter_rules_with_your_extension https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/concept...