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Ask HN: Is there no escape from working 9-5?

I'm a software engineer with almost 20 years of experience. My whole career was self employment. I tried some freelance. Tried to build a business. And I read all the books about "working 4 hours a week", and aspiring to that lifestyle. However, the more I read from/talk with other people, the more I start to think that there is no escape from slaving for the rest of your life. Hear me out. 9-5, is well, 9-5. You get a stable salary when times are good. Hopefully you save enough for when times are bad. Despite all the "unlimited vacation" and other corporate BS, you are still obligated to be at the office/attend the daily meetings, hence you don't really have freedom to, say, be with your kids/family/at the beach at 12PM, because that's when your team is having a retrospective. The answer? Freelancing. Except, from what I read, freelancing is the same 9-5 but you now have multiple teams/unstable income/(potentially) higher income. Despite the fact that freelancing seems lucrative to a salaried SWE, it is a 9-5 in disguise (at least from what people say on the internet, I don't have much experience there myself). Usually, it's not even 9-5 but more like 8AM to 10PM. But at least you are at home (hopefully?), so you can tell your spouse/kid "hey, not now, this client needs me". The answer? A SaaS. Except, building a profitable SaaS is extremely hard, and is far from "4 hours work week". You spend all your free time to bootstrap the product, while spending the 9-5 to make money to feed yourself. There is a strong correlation between the founders of billion dollar companies and their (rich) background, so unless you come from money, you will sacrifice a lot (entertainment, relationships, socialization) to maybe land in the 1% of SaaS products to actually make more than 100$ MRR. And even if you are able to pull it off, consistently, you will be working more than 8 hours a day. At least you are not trading your time for money as a direct transaction. The answer? FIRE. Work your ass off, save as much money and invest it in S&P500 in order to be able to live off 4% withdrawal rate. Except, the 4% safe withdrawal rate is somewhat conflicting, and if you want to actually live in a western country, instead of posting picture of how great it is in Bali/Thailand, while none of these countries have the needed infrastructure in order to have a family, then 4% for a family means you need to save A LOT. Like millions of $$. Which is possible if you live like a rat, less possible if you don't want to waste your youth, delay relationship (or break existing ones). So.. My question to you HN: is there no escape from 9-5 as a concept? Are all these books about working 2 hours a week while making millions, are just BS?

JohnFen 2y ago
> is there no escape from 9-5 as a concept? There is absolutely an escape from that as a concept, but it involves a tradeoff: if you're willing to live on a reduced income, you can gain more time not working. Also, as you've noticed, being self-employed means you will be working more, not less. The wins of self-employment are other things, not the ability to work less. > Are all these books about working 2 hours a week while making millions, are just BS? Unequivocally yes. There are a handful of people who've pulled that off (and they aren't the ones writing those books), but the odds of you being one of them are so low as be approximately zero, in part because it involves a whole lot of pure luck.
- throwaway_43793 2y ago
  My question wasn't clear enough I'm afraid. It's not that I don't want to work, it's more about the fact that I don't want to participate in meaningless rituals. There are absolutely zero reasons to have the 9-5. Software can be written also from 8 to 10, and from 4 to 8, but for some reason the entire world has gone mad and married the 9-5. On top of that, nobody really writes code for 8 hours. So instead of the 1-3 hours that I waste in a corporate world for meaningless "cooler talks", I could spend with my family, or workout. But no, I need to conform to 9-5.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    I misunderstood based on your comments about freelancing. It sounded like you found it unacceptable that instead of 9-5, freelancing means you'd be working longer hours. If you freelance, you can work on whatever schedule suits you best. Outside of the occasional meeting, you don't have to even be awake from 9-5 if you don't want to.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Indeed, its a trap. There are many ways out, all have tradeoffs. Find the way out you are most comfortable with. Spend less, earn more, save more, invest prudently. These are the levers available to you to achieve an outcome.
2y ago

JohnFen 2y ago

> is there no escape from 9-5 as a concept? There is absolutely an escape from that as a concept, but it involves a tradeoff: if you're willing to live on a reduced income, you can gain more time not working. Also, as you've noticed, being self-employed means you will be working more, not less. The wins of self-employment are other things, not the ability to work less. > Are all these books about working 2 hours a week while making millions, are just BS? Unequivocally yes. There are a handful of people who've pulled that off (and they aren't the ones writing those books), but the odds of you being one of them are so low as be approximately zero, in part because it involves a whole lot of pure luck.

throwaway_43793 2y ago
My question wasn't clear enough I'm afraid. It's not that I don't want to work, it's more about the fact that I don't want to participate in meaningless rituals. There are absolutely zero reasons to have the 9-5. Software can be written also from 8 to 10, and from 4 to 8, but for some reason the entire world has gone mad and married the 9-5. On top of that, nobody really writes code for 8 hours. So instead of the 1-3 hours that I waste in a corporate world for meaningless "cooler talks", I could spend with my family, or workout. But no, I need to conform to 9-5.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  I misunderstood based on your comments about freelancing. It sounded like you found it unacceptable that instead of 9-5, freelancing means you'd be working longer hours. If you freelance, you can work on whatever schedule suits you best. Outside of the occasional meeting, you don't have to even be awake from 9-5 if you don't want to.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Indeed, its a trap. There are many ways out, all have tradeoffs. Find the way out you are most comfortable with. Spend less, earn more, save more, invest prudently. These are the levers available to you to achieve an outcome.

2y ago