9 ms·

Automattic is a fully remote company, getting jobs in APAC, Africa, and europe is tricky, not a lot are going to throw that away and hunt for a job for 6 months

Automattic is a fully remote company, getting jobs in APAC, Africa, and europe is tricky, not a lot are going to throw that away and hunt for a job for 6 months.

hshshshsvsv 2y ago
Stupid question but where exactly in the world is getting a remote job not tricky?
- genezeta 2y ago
  I may be wrong but I understand the comment above as saying that "getting jobs" in those places is now tricky. Not "getting remote jobs", just "getting jobs". In the sense that people who got now have a remote job at Automattic would have a hard time finding another job, even a non-remote one.
- yellow_lead 2y ago
  I think in the US it's less tricky. There are much more openings without time zone issues.
  - tzs 2y ago
    Jurisdiction issues are also probably a big factor. If you have employees in N jurisdictions you potentially have to deal with N different sets of laws and regulations concerning income taxes, unemployment insurance taxes, health insurance, employment contracts, layoffs, maternity/paternity leave, unions, and probably many I've overlooked. Remote employees in the same city? Trivial. Different cities in the same county? Possibly slightly more work. Different counties in the state? Maybe a slight step up in work. Different states in the same country? Could be a big step up in work. Different countries? Likely much more work than for employees in your country. With employees in different states in your own country things will work similarly. The bureaucracy you have to deal with for an employee in Florida and for an employee in Washington, for example, will be fairly similar, and much more similar to each other than they are to the bureaucracy you'll be dealing with for your employee in say Germany.
    - alexp11223 2y ago
      I think most of the companies (most likely including Automattic) are not doing it like that for remote employees from other countries. They are just "hiring" them as contractors, that is formally it's just B2B, the employee would register some kind of individual business entity in their country, send invoices, pay taxes. The contract may include things like vacations, sick days, (home office) equipment compensation, N months notice/severance pay, but it has no connection to the laws for normal employees in that country. I think doing it differently would not be practical, because the company would have to maintain some kind of companies/offices in each country. Another option can be hiring the employee directly at the main company (not sure about US, but I am pretty sure it's possible at least for some countries in Europe), but it's also more complex and I am not sure if this would even make sense for the employee since e.g. they would not be able to access the benefits like healthcare remotely. And as long as the contract is good and the company is trustworthy, being a contractor/self-employed may have some advantages like lower taxes.
- senadir 2y ago
  Getting remote jobs in general is tricky if you're not from certain countries. I'm from Algeria, Automattic was one of the few companies that hired there. Every other country would ask you to be in the US, or US timezone, or in a certain European country. Not all remote is built equal.
  - ufmace 2y ago
    This actually makes me really suspicious about Automattic. Companies generally don't refuse to hire outside of certain countries just to be jerks, they do it because complying with international tax obligations while paying employees in dozens of countries is complex and expensive. Given that, and the behavior we've seen from Matt and Automattic so far, what are the odds that they've actually got a bunch of really great international accountants and are doing everything correctly everywhere, versus they're just ignoring all of the tax laws and winging it, and are therefore at high risk of getting smacked down once the relevant authorities get wind of what's going on there?
    - kyleee 2y ago
      It feels like you are just piling on really by engaging in such speculation. If I am wrong though please share your expertise on the difficulties of hiring remote in Algeria.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - senadir 2y ago
      You seem to never been in that shoe (from a country no one hires from). Companies avoid that because it’s too much hassle. Automattic cares and goes through the hassle, simple as that. You’re also talking without concrete knowledge. We work as international contractors, we handle our own local taxes. Automattic pays us the gross salary and it’s up to you.
      - hshshshsvsv 2y ago
- slezyr 2y ago
  In Ukraine.

Automattic is a fully remote company, getting jobs in APAC, Africa, and europe is tricky, not a lot are going to throw that away and hunt for a job for 6 months.

hshshshsvsv 2y ago

Stupid question but where exactly in the world is getting a remote job not tricky?

genezeta 2y ago
I may be wrong but I understand the comment above as saying that "getting jobs" in those places is now tricky. Not "getting remote jobs", just "getting jobs". In the sense that people who got now have a remote job at Automattic would have a hard time finding another job, even a non-remote one.
yellow_lead 2y ago
I think in the US it's less tricky. There are much more openings without time zone issues.
- tzs 2y ago
  Jurisdiction issues are also probably a big factor. If you have employees in N jurisdictions you potentially have to deal with N different sets of laws and regulations concerning income taxes, unemployment insurance taxes, health insurance, employment contracts, layoffs, maternity/paternity leave, unions, and probably many I've overlooked. Remote employees in the same city? Trivial. Different cities in the same county? Possibly slightly more work. Different counties in the state? Maybe a slight step up in work. Different states in the same country? Could be a big step up in work. Different countries? Likely much more work than for employees in your country. With employees in different states in your own country things will work similarly. The bureaucracy you have to deal with for an employee in Florida and for an employee in Washington, for example, will be fairly similar, and much more similar to each other than they are to the bureaucracy you'll be dealing with for your employee in say Germany.
  - alexp11223 2y ago
    I think most of the companies (most likely including Automattic) are not doing it like that for remote employees from other countries. They are just "hiring" them as contractors, that is formally it's just B2B, the employee would register some kind of individual business entity in their country, send invoices, pay taxes. The contract may include things like vacations, sick days, (home office) equipment compensation, N months notice/severance pay, but it has no connection to the laws for normal employees in that country. I think doing it differently would not be practical, because the company would have to maintain some kind of companies/offices in each country. Another option can be hiring the employee directly at the main company (not sure about US, but I am pretty sure it's possible at least for some countries in Europe), but it's also more complex and I am not sure if this would even make sense for the employee since e.g. they would not be able to access the benefits like healthcare remotely. And as long as the contract is good and the company is trustworthy, being a contractor/self-employed may have some advantages like lower taxes.
senadir 2y ago
Getting remote jobs in general is tricky if you're not from certain countries. I'm from Algeria, Automattic was one of the few companies that hired there. Every other country would ask you to be in the US, or US timezone, or in a certain European country. Not all remote is built equal.
- ufmace 2y ago
  This actually makes me really suspicious about Automattic. Companies generally don't refuse to hire outside of certain countries just to be jerks, they do it because complying with international tax obligations while paying employees in dozens of countries is complex and expensive. Given that, and the behavior we've seen from Matt and Automattic so far, what are the odds that they've actually got a bunch of really great international accountants and are doing everything correctly everywhere, versus they're just ignoring all of the tax laws and winging it, and are therefore at high risk of getting smacked down once the relevant authorities get wind of what's going on there?
  - kyleee 2y ago
    It feels like you are just piling on really by engaging in such speculation. If I am wrong though please share your expertise on the difficulties of hiring remote in Algeria.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - senadir 2y ago
    You seem to never been in that shoe (from a country no one hires from). Companies avoid that because it’s too much hassle. Automattic cares and goes through the hassle, simple as that. You’re also talking without concrete knowledge. We work as international contractors, we handle our own local taxes. Automattic pays us the gross salary and it’s up to you.
    - hshshshsvsv 2y ago
slezyr 2y ago
In Ukraine.