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To be fair, he said the Rust community has little real-world respect. Linux considering the inclusion of Rust on technical merit is unrelated to the bunch of ya

To be fair, he said the Rust community has little real-world respect. Linux considering the inclusion of Rust on technical merit is unrelated to the bunch of yahoos who have made a certain technology their identity.

infamouscow 2y ago
You've precisely pinpointed the nuance that seems to elude so many: the distinction between the technical merits of Rust and the often overzealous antics of its most ardent adherents. It's amusing how some conflate corporate adoption with universal admiration for a community's demeanor. Perhaps if more could separate the tool from its torchbearers, we'd have fewer misguided defenses and more meaningful discourse.
Ar-Curunir 2y ago
I have a hard time believing that as well. What is the definition of community? Is it the RIIR fanboys? Is it /r/rust? Is it users.rust-lang.org? Each of these subcommunities is quite sizable, and the last two definitely make an effort to squash RIIR-type overzealotry. If you're still going to define the Rust community by the latter, it would be fair game to define the C/C++ community by the very vocal people who insist that there's nothing wrong with the lack of memory-safety in those languages.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > Is it the RIIR fanboys? Is it /r/rust? Is it users.rust-lang.org? Does it matter? Which one of those do you think has the respect of the real world? I'd say none of them. Frankly, I have never heard of these communities (if we are to call them that), and if I had to guess I'd say their only claim to fame is writing silly comments on the internet, which certainly doesn't garner respect even on the internet, let alone in the real world. > the last two definitely make an effort to squash RIIR-type overzealotry. A further indication of not having respect. "Quiet you, you're making me look bad" is not something someone who already has respect is concerned with. Maybe someone seeking respect.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    > Which one of those do you think has the respect of the real world? Judging by the direction of C++ apologists these days - probably the people that promote Rust as a better LLVM-compiled language than it's alternatives? Renouncing them would kinda mean renouncing the concept of IR as a whole, which coincidentally seems to be the saving grace of the C programming language too. Without intermediate representation, both languages are unfit for commercial or optimization-sensitive applications. The entire world of compiled languages has always been a ravenous and ego-fuelled madhouse. This recent attempt to slough off the discourse onto the Rust community is stupid, because if we dig down to the compiler level we're literally arguing over semantics. If you wouldn't call LLVM or Valgrind advocates "overzealous" then you probably don't have a rational reason to say it to Rust advocates either. And I just say that as a guy who wants my kernel to not suck balls.

infamouscow 2y ago

You've precisely pinpointed the nuance that seems to elude so many: the distinction between the technical merits of Rust and the often overzealous antics of its most ardent adherents. It's amusing how some conflate corporate adoption with universal admiration for a community's demeanor. Perhaps if more could separate the tool from its torchbearers, we'd have fewer misguided defenses and more meaningful discourse.

Ar-Curunir 2y ago

I have a hard time believing that as well. What is the definition of community? Is it the RIIR fanboys? Is it /r/rust? Is it users.rust-lang.org? Each of these subcommunities is quite sizable, and the last two definitely make an effort to squash RIIR-type overzealotry. If you're still going to define the Rust community by the latter, it would be fair game to define the C/C++ community by the very vocal people who insist that there's nothing wrong with the lack of memory-safety in those languages.

randomdata 2y ago
> Is it the RIIR fanboys? Is it /r/rust? Is it users.rust-lang.org? Does it matter? Which one of those do you think has the respect of the real world? I'd say none of them. Frankly, I have never heard of these communities (if we are to call them that), and if I had to guess I'd say their only claim to fame is writing silly comments on the internet, which certainly doesn't garner respect even on the internet, let alone in the real world. > the last two definitely make an effort to squash RIIR-type overzealotry. A further indication of not having respect. "Quiet you, you're making me look bad" is not something someone who already has respect is concerned with. Maybe someone seeking respect.
- talldayo 2y ago
  > Which one of those do you think has the respect of the real world? Judging by the direction of C++ apologists these days - probably the people that promote Rust as a better LLVM-compiled language than it's alternatives? Renouncing them would kinda mean renouncing the concept of IR as a whole, which coincidentally seems to be the saving grace of the C programming language too. Without intermediate representation, both languages are unfit for commercial or optimization-sensitive applications. The entire world of compiled languages has always been a ravenous and ego-fuelled madhouse. This recent attempt to slough off the discourse onto the Rust community is stupid, because if we dig down to the compiler level we're literally arguing over semantics. If you wouldn't call LLVM or Valgrind advocates "overzealous" then you probably don't have a rational reason to say it to Rust advocates either. And I just say that as a guy who wants my kernel to not suck balls.