6 ms·

It’s my civic duty to expose my daughter to hostile vagrants and vulgar uncontrolled boys harassing her in front of bewildered and powerless staff? I can’t ima

It’s my civic duty to expose my daughter to hostile vagrants and vulgar uncontrolled boys harassing her in front of bewildered and powerless staff? I can’t imagine why these places are closing!

its_down_again 2y ago
I don't have a daughter yet, so can't really comment on that perspective. But I've had a great experience with the SF public libraries. I visit the main one near Civic Center pretty often just to use the printer, and honestly I just love being around stacks of books. I haven't been since the pandemic, but the one in Chinatown was always packed with kids studying together, and it was clean. I grew up going to libraries in the suburbs of Chicago and Philadelphia. Those are some of my best memories. I wouldn't have developed the computer skills or built the career I have today if I hadn't seen other kids, a little older than me, using them. Just being able to spend hours in a quiet, safe space where people are learning for fun— I think it changed my life.
mint2 2y ago
Don’t bring your daughter to bars that call themselves libraries? Not sure what libraries your town has but that’s not what I’ve seen from libraries.
- pjkundert 2y ago
  A small city library in western Canada. There is nothing that I as a visitor can do (without being arrested). There is nothing the employees can do, because the vagrant can beat them, and the young thug can report them - and the judge will rule in favor of the assailants.
  - PlattypusRex 2y ago
    Your portrayal of libraries is inaccurate and overly negative. Library staff can ask people to leave, and if they refuse, staff can call the police and ban people like this from returning once they're removed. I grew up in libraries in suburban areas full of vagrants and junkies, and the few times they caused issues, they did what I described.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      How do you speak so confidently for another’s experience? I go the library sometime, but I wouldn’t take my hypothetical daughter to my local library, or at least leave her unattended, because it truly is a daytime shelter with powerless staff.
  - AStonesThrow 2y ago
    It is tragic but quite believable that your local library is a hostile environment. Municipal libraries can vary widely in atmosphere and clientele. Personally I've spent loads of time hanging out in libraries from my infancy. My mother volunteered in them until I graduated high school. When I was forced to live on the streets, I found libraries to be a peaceful daytime refuge with amenities available; as long as I was respectful and never overstepped etiquette rules, I was often permitted to doze off. I was blessed to be near a major university whose library facilities were explicitly a public service, not limited to students. The atmosphere in there was a cut above, calm and sophisticated. I never caused trouble and I never invited it, but I was occasionally locked-in after closing time! My own city's library actually exists on park land, and it's patrolled by legitimate uniformed Park Rangers! Indeed there has been a surge of homeless and street people hanging out, but the library responded by co-locating social services, including the Section 8 housing office, in an excellent show of outreach. The main urban library has been a much bigger zoo and practically demilitarized. There is definitely also gang activity. The homeless hangout has been curtailed a bit; unfortunately the café there closed permanently. I personally didn't feel safe, and the restroom users were frequently patrolled to keep them honest. A real shame for you there in Canada. If you have the means to access a university library, perhaps it's more hospitable. Otherwise, appeal to your municipal leadership and get civically involved. No tax-paying family should be intimidated out of their rightful public services.
    - pjkundert 2y ago
      My mother ran a local small-town library for years. It is indeed a tragic and unnecessary waste of a wonderful resource.
- Rebelgecko 2y ago
  At least in US cities, a lot of libraries double as de facto homeless shelters during the day. And while the majority of those folks just want somewhere with air conditioning to charge their phone, there are enough exceptions to make the environment unpleasant.

It’s my civic duty to expose my daughter to hostile vagrants and vulgar uncontrolled boys harassing her in front of bewildered and powerless staff? I can’t imagine why these places are closing!

its_down_again 2y ago

I don't have a daughter yet, so can't really comment on that perspective. But I've had a great experience with the SF public libraries. I visit the main one near Civic Center pretty often just to use the printer, and honestly I just love being around stacks of books. I haven't been since the pandemic, but the one in Chinatown was always packed with kids studying together, and it was clean. I grew up going to libraries in the suburbs of Chicago and Philadelphia. Those are some of my best memories. I wouldn't have developed the computer skills or built the career I have today if I hadn't seen other kids, a little older than me, using them. Just being able to spend hours in a quiet, safe space where people are learning for fun— I think it changed my life.

mint2 2y ago

Don’t bring your daughter to bars that call themselves libraries? Not sure what libraries your town has but that’s not what I’ve seen from libraries.

pjkundert 2y ago
A small city library in western Canada. There is nothing that I as a visitor can do (without being arrested). There is nothing the employees can do, because the vagrant can beat them, and the young thug can report them - and the judge will rule in favor of the assailants.
- PlattypusRex 2y ago
  Your portrayal of libraries is inaccurate and overly negative. Library staff can ask people to leave, and if they refuse, staff can call the police and ban people like this from returning once they're removed. I grew up in libraries in suburban areas full of vagrants and junkies, and the few times they caused issues, they did what I described.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    How do you speak so confidently for another’s experience? I go the library sometime, but I wouldn’t take my hypothetical daughter to my local library, or at least leave her unattended, because it truly is a daytime shelter with powerless staff.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  It is tragic but quite believable that your local library is a hostile environment. Municipal libraries can vary widely in atmosphere and clientele. Personally I've spent loads of time hanging out in libraries from my infancy. My mother volunteered in them until I graduated high school. When I was forced to live on the streets, I found libraries to be a peaceful daytime refuge with amenities available; as long as I was respectful and never overstepped etiquette rules, I was often permitted to doze off. I was blessed to be near a major university whose library facilities were explicitly a public service, not limited to students. The atmosphere in there was a cut above, calm and sophisticated. I never caused trouble and I never invited it, but I was occasionally locked-in after closing time! My own city's library actually exists on park land, and it's patrolled by legitimate uniformed Park Rangers! Indeed there has been a surge of homeless and street people hanging out, but the library responded by co-locating social services, including the Section 8 housing office, in an excellent show of outreach. The main urban library has been a much bigger zoo and practically demilitarized. There is definitely also gang activity. The homeless hangout has been curtailed a bit; unfortunately the café there closed permanently. I personally didn't feel safe, and the restroom users were frequently patrolled to keep them honest. A real shame for you there in Canada. If you have the means to access a university library, perhaps it's more hospitable. Otherwise, appeal to your municipal leadership and get civically involved. No tax-paying family should be intimidated out of their rightful public services.
  - pjkundert 2y ago
    My mother ran a local small-town library for years. It is indeed a tragic and unnecessary waste of a wonderful resource.
Rebelgecko 2y ago
At least in US cities, a lot of libraries double as de facto homeless shelters during the day. And while the majority of those folks just want somewhere with air conditioning to charge their phone, there are enough exceptions to make the environment unpleasant.