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They are referring to the liz truss budget.

by grumpy_coder 2y ago

throwaway48540 2y ago
So it is the elected representatives who are responsible for choosing them and implementing whatever they suggested?
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  Being elected doesn't remove your obligations to follow sane, moral policies.
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    That's my point. Crazy economists are not responsible for the damage, it's the elected people who listened to them and followed through. To create an intentionally extreme parallel, imagine they have chosen a group of idk, satanists. Would you blame the group of satanists for being satanists, or the people in charge of a country who contacted a group of satanists for advice?
    - ninalanyon 2y ago
      Surely you blame both? Being consistently evil and living up (or down?) to ones reputation for evil doesn't make one less evil.
mike_hearn 2y ago
What happened wasn't primarily due to her budget. It was due to a meltdown in the pension sector triggered by over-leverage, arguably caused by the BoE not doing its regulatory duties correctly. Don't get me wrong, a budget that cuts taxes without cutting spending is no good. But the idea that what happened was a direct consequence of that doesn't make much sense as it had been telegraphed a long way in advance, giving the markets plenty of time to adjust. The central bank changed monetary policy a day before the mini-budget, and changes in that are kept secret until the moment of announcement. Additionally, UK spending has since blown through what the mini-budget would have created without any sudden market turmoil. https://www.ft.com/content/4701b6ac-851e-43fd-a2b2-b38dd07c7b0e https://www.ft.com/content/4701b6ac-851e-43fd-a2b2-b38dd07c7... Regulators failed to anticipate the dangers that borrowing by pension schemes posed to the stability of the UK’s financial system, according to a parliamentary report into the turmoil that hit the gilt markets following Liz Truss’s disastrous “mini” Budget in September last year. Pension schemes suffered multibillion-pound losses after they were forced to sell assets to ensure that complex derivative-linked strategies — known as liability driven investments (LDI) — did not implode when gilt yields jumped as investors rejected the then prime minister’s economic strategy. Also, Truss is basically correct that the UK needs more growth. Disagreeing on her tactics is reasonable, disagreeing on her goals isn't. She was unfortunately attempting to create growth from a position of weakness: in a party that didn't want to do anything hard like cutting spending, and with a fragile/over-leveraged financial sector.
- nmadden 2y ago
  Pull the other one. Only some of the tax cuts had been telegraphed in advance. Abolishing the top rate of income tax and cutting the basic rate early hadn’t been. They ignored all the warnings they were given and sidelined the OBR. The Truss/Kwarteng budget directly crashed the economy and trying to pretend otherwise is some serious revisionism. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/63229204 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/63229204
  - mike_hearn 2y ago
    You're arguing with the conclusions of the official investigation, not me.
    - nmadden 2y ago
      The committee report only looked at the regulator. To be sure, the regulator and the pensions industry should have done more. But the idea that Truss and Kwarteng are blameless innocents in the whole fiasco is ridiculous.

They are referring to the liz truss budget.

throwaway48540 2y ago

So it is the elected representatives who are responsible for choosing them and implementing whatever they suggested?

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
Being elected doesn't remove your obligations to follow sane, moral policies.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  That's my point. Crazy economists are not responsible for the damage, it's the elected people who listened to them and followed through. To create an intentionally extreme parallel, imagine they have chosen a group of idk, satanists. Would you blame the group of satanists for being satanists, or the people in charge of a country who contacted a group of satanists for advice?
  - ninalanyon 2y ago
    Surely you blame both? Being consistently evil and living up (or down?) to ones reputation for evil doesn't make one less evil.

mike_hearn 2y ago

What happened wasn't primarily due to her budget. It was due to a meltdown in the pension sector triggered by over-leverage, arguably caused by the BoE not doing its regulatory duties correctly. Don't get me wrong, a budget that cuts taxes without cutting spending is no good. But the idea that what happened was a direct consequence of that doesn't make much sense as it had been telegraphed a long way in advance, giving the markets plenty of time to adjust. The central bank changed monetary policy a day before the mini-budget, and changes in that are kept secret until the moment of announcement. Additionally, UK spending has since blown through what the mini-budget would have created without any sudden market turmoil. https://www.ft.com/content/4701b6ac-851e-43fd-a2b2-b38dd07c7b0e https://www.ft.com/content/4701b6ac-851e-43fd-a2b2-b38dd07c7... Regulators failed to anticipate the dangers that borrowing by pension schemes posed to the stability of the UK’s financial system, according to a parliamentary report into the turmoil that hit the gilt markets following Liz Truss’s disastrous “mini” Budget in September last year. Pension schemes suffered multibillion-pound losses after they were forced to sell assets to ensure that complex derivative-linked strategies — known as liability driven investments (LDI) — did not implode when gilt yields jumped as investors rejected the then prime minister’s economic strategy. Also, Truss is basically correct that the UK needs more growth. Disagreeing on her tactics is reasonable, disagreeing on her goals isn't. She was unfortunately attempting to create growth from a position of weakness: in a party that didn't want to do anything hard like cutting spending, and with a fragile/over-leveraged financial sector.

nmadden 2y ago
Pull the other one. Only some of the tax cuts had been telegraphed in advance. Abolishing the top rate of income tax and cutting the basic rate early hadn’t been. They ignored all the warnings they were given and sidelined the OBR. The Truss/Kwarteng budget directly crashed the economy and trying to pretend otherwise is some serious revisionism. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/63229204 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/63229204
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  You're arguing with the conclusions of the official investigation, not me.
  - nmadden 2y ago
    The committee report only looked at the regulator. To be sure, the regulator and the pensions industry should have done more. But the idea that Truss and Kwarteng are blameless innocents in the whole fiasco is ridiculous.