8 ms·

Socialists generally despise co-ops, volitional communities (eg. Hutterites) because they work, and provide long-running, successful examples of the benefits es

by _yid9 2y ago

Socialists generally despise co-ops, volitional communities (eg. Hutterites) because they work, and provide long-running, successful examples of the benefits espoused by socialists, but ... They are done by free people, using their own resources! That is the problem: "socialists" don't want to use their own resources and effort to accomplish their utopian goals; they want to use your resources. There is no amount of other people's blood and treasure a socialist is unwilling to risk.

tocs3 2y ago
This might be a case where "judging by their works" comes into play. Grouping by semantics is not a good idea.
DonnyV 2y ago
Every socialist's I know loves Co-ops. I think every company should be a co-op, it literally practices many socialist ideas. See right here.... " "socialists" don't want to use their own resources and effort to accomplish their utopian goals; they want to use your resources." Now you're just projecting what you "think" is socialism. Which this is not. In Socialism we all decide what to do with the resources at hand. For example Private Property. Private Property is land and tools used to produce things to be sold for profit. If you own a house with a garden, that's your personal property. Nobody's gonna take that from you. If you operate a farm and have a house on that farm, where you live, then you have both personal and private property. However since YOU work your own farm, you're not losing out; you'll actually get MORE say in what you can do with that land. If you own a farm but hire a bunch of people to work it and you gather all the profits and only pay them a wage...THAT is private property, and you're going to have to share the revenues of the farm equally with all the people who work that land. But nobody's going to take your stuff.
- benterix 2y ago
  I guess it depends on your experiences. My leftist friends are very much involved in co-ops and in general what you say it's true. However, when we talk about the actual socialism, that is the political system in Eastern Europe from 1945 until 1989, the parent is right - the socialists, and their older brothers communists, wanted your property and in general non-part initiatives were either frowned upon or strictly forbidden.
  - gremlinsinc 2y ago
    there's a difference between anarcho-socialists (pro co-op VERY anti-tanky), and tankies... or old-school? communists who are for violence and forcing it on everyone...

by _yid9 2y ago

tocs3 2y ago

This might be a case where "judging by their works" comes into play. Grouping by semantics is not a good idea.

DonnyV 2y ago

Every socialist's I know loves Co-ops. I think every company should be a co-op, it literally practices many socialist ideas. See right here.... " "socialists" don't want to use their own resources and effort to accomplish their utopian goals; they want to use your resources." Now you're just projecting what you "think" is socialism. Which this is not. In Socialism we all decide what to do with the resources at hand. For example Private Property. Private Property is land and tools used to produce things to be sold for profit. If you own a house with a garden, that's your personal property. Nobody's gonna take that from you. If you operate a farm and have a house on that farm, where you live, then you have both personal and private property. However since YOU work your own farm, you're not losing out; you'll actually get MORE say in what you can do with that land. If you own a farm but hire a bunch of people to work it and you gather all the profits and only pay them a wage...THAT is private property, and you're going to have to share the revenues of the farm equally with all the people who work that land. But nobody's going to take your stuff.

benterix 2y ago
I guess it depends on your experiences. My leftist friends are very much involved in co-ops and in general what you say it's true. However, when we talk about the actual socialism, that is the political system in Eastern Europe from 1945 until 1989, the parent is right - the socialists, and their older brothers communists, wanted your property and in general non-part initiatives were either frowned upon or strictly forbidden.
- gremlinsinc 2y ago
  there's a difference between anarcho-socialists (pro co-op VERY anti-tanky), and tankies... or old-school? communists who are for violence and forcing it on everyone...