6 ms·

> Could someone like the NSA with limitless resources do it? Quite probably, sure. If you're not worried about a fairly well-resourced government agency uncove

> Could someone like the NSA with limitless resources do it? Quite probably, sure. If you're not worried about a fairly well-resourced government agency uncovering whatever network activity you believe needs to be anonymized, why would you be using Tor at all?

echoangle 2y ago
Depends on what you’re doing. The NSA isn’t going to expose themselves by tipping off law enforcement about small time drug deals. If you’re sharing CSAM or planning terrorist attacks, it might be different.
- stackghost 2y ago
  >If you’re sharing CSAM or planning terrorist attacks, it might be different. They'll just employ parallel construction to avoid exposure.
CapitalistCartr 2y ago
Because you're an enemy of the Iranian, Saudi, North Korean, etc. gov't. Because your ex-spouse wants to murder you. Because you just escaped Scientology, or another cult. Because you're a criminal. The NSA doesn't handle that. Because you're a journalist talking to sources in the industry you're investigating.
- adamrezich 2y ago
  Those second and third points are pretty laughably paranoid-fantasy reasons to use Tor—even if one found oneself in either situation.
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    tor-browser comes with other privacy-boosting features, beyond its method of talking to the network. That might make a difference too, if someone is likely to look at your browser history etc.
  - throwme0827349 2y ago
    Respectfully, a large number of people rightfully fear for their lives, safety, and freedom due to being stalked or abused by a current or former partner. I have personally known several. Using victims' devices and communications in order to locate, and then harass, trap, or attack them, is commonplace for stalkers.
    - adamrezich 2y ago
      How many of these people are justified (by evidence, not merely paranoia) in thinking that Tor would circumvent whatever communications interception may or may not have been put in place? And of those people, how many people have ever even heard of Tor, let alone know how to use it?
      - throwing_away 2y ago
        I think you just unintentionally highlighted the need for the tor project and outreach to inform people about it.
        adamrezich 2y ago
        Not to make too much light of a morbid topic but the idea of someone having a murderous yet tech-savvy ex who has methodically installed all sorts of elaborate digital surveillance measures in their former spouse's personal tech stack in service of premeditated homicide, sitting in a dark room somewhere, howling in anger upon realizing his murder plan has (somehow...?) been thwarted by said former spouse unexpectedly using Tor is pretty funny (because of how outlandish it is). "I almost got away with it too, if it weren't for you kids and that onion routing software!"
        yazzku 2y ago
        It's like a series of onions!
        throwme0827349 2y ago
        Stop thinking about cloak and dagger shit and start thinking about things ordinary people could do if they had a psychotic obsession, and nothing better to do with 120 hours a week of their time. Stalkers want to make it impossible to live a normal life. They try to make it impossible to go to work or school, to use phones, email, messaging services, etc. Already knew my contact info, and got new ones by asking mutual friends. Called the the landline and cell and work phone and hung up or heavy-breathed into the phone hundreds of times a day. Telco won't help with this or admit who's doing it w/o a subpoena, which I couldn't realistically get. They tried to get various online accounts, including employer provided, to be flooded/brigaded/spamed/banned. You don't have to be a leet haxor to do social engineering, sim swapping, and other crying on the phone to customer service type of attacks on other people's accounts. You just have to be pissed off and risk tolerant. Not saying tor is a good-fit solution to these problems, just saying that "Because your ex-spouse wants to murder you", and also you have a day-to-day practical necessity to find a secure, hard to block way to communicate on, or access, the internet is not actually an exotic problem.
  - rockskon 2y ago
    The second to last point is laughable since it's long been authorized in executive order that if the NSA stumbles upon information relating to criminal activity while searching for other stuff that they can report that info to the FBI. Heck - FBI is allowed to do the same damn thing with the data they're given by the NSA. Y'know, the whole "backdoor search loophole" which amounts to laundering authorities across agencies to get access to data they wouldn't otherwise be permitted to have.
- goodpoint 2y ago
  Because your ISP is selling your traffic logs. Because you want to avoid creepy targeted ads. Because you live in a country that blocks many legitimate websites. Because you are looking for information about abortion and live in countries like Iran or US

echoangle 2y ago

Depends on what you’re doing. The NSA isn’t going to expose themselves by tipping off law enforcement about small time drug deals. If you’re sharing CSAM or planning terrorist attacks, it might be different.

stackghost 2y ago
>If you’re sharing CSAM or planning terrorist attacks, it might be different. They'll just employ parallel construction to avoid exposure.

CapitalistCartr 2y ago

Because you're an enemy of the Iranian, Saudi, North Korean, etc. gov't. Because your ex-spouse wants to murder you. Because you just escaped Scientology, or another cult. Because you're a criminal. The NSA doesn't handle that. Because you're a journalist talking to sources in the industry you're investigating.

adamrezich 2y ago
Those second and third points are pretty laughably paranoid-fantasy reasons to use Tor—even if one found oneself in either situation.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  tor-browser comes with other privacy-boosting features, beyond its method of talking to the network. That might make a difference too, if someone is likely to look at your browser history etc.
- throwme0827349 2y ago
  Respectfully, a large number of people rightfully fear for their lives, safety, and freedom due to being stalked or abused by a current or former partner. I have personally known several. Using victims' devices and communications in order to locate, and then harass, trap, or attack them, is commonplace for stalkers.
  - adamrezich 2y ago
    How many of these people are justified (by evidence, not merely paranoia) in thinking that Tor would circumvent whatever communications interception may or may not have been put in place? And of those people, how many people have ever even heard of Tor, let alone know how to use it?
    - throwing_away 2y ago
      I think you just unintentionally highlighted the need for the tor project and outreach to inform people about it.
      - adamrezich 2y ago
        Not to make too much light of a morbid topic but the idea of someone having a murderous yet tech-savvy ex who has methodically installed all sorts of elaborate digital surveillance measures in their former spouse's personal tech stack in service of premeditated homicide, sitting in a dark room somewhere, howling in anger upon realizing his murder plan has (somehow...?) been thwarted by said former spouse unexpectedly using Tor is pretty funny (because of how outlandish it is). "I almost got away with it too, if it weren't for you kids and that onion routing software!"
        yazzku 2y ago
        It's like a series of onions!
        throwme0827349 2y ago
        Stop thinking about cloak and dagger shit and start thinking about things ordinary people could do if they had a psychotic obsession, and nothing better to do with 120 hours a week of their time. Stalkers want to make it impossible to live a normal life. They try to make it impossible to go to work or school, to use phones, email, messaging services, etc. Already knew my contact info, and got new ones by asking mutual friends. Called the the landline and cell and work phone and hung up or heavy-breathed into the phone hundreds of times a day. Telco won't help with this or admit who's doing it w/o a subpoena, which I couldn't realistically get. They tried to get various online accounts, including employer provided, to be flooded/brigaded/spamed/banned. You don't have to be a leet haxor to do social engineering, sim swapping, and other crying on the phone to customer service type of attacks on other people's accounts. You just have to be pissed off and risk tolerant. Not saying tor is a good-fit solution to these problems, just saying that "Because your ex-spouse wants to murder you", and also you have a day-to-day practical necessity to find a secure, hard to block way to communicate on, or access, the internet is not actually an exotic problem.
- rockskon 2y ago
  The second to last point is laughable since it's long been authorized in executive order that if the NSA stumbles upon information relating to criminal activity while searching for other stuff that they can report that info to the FBI. Heck - FBI is allowed to do the same damn thing with the data they're given by the NSA. Y'know, the whole "backdoor search loophole" which amounts to laundering authorities across agencies to get access to data they wouldn't otherwise be permitted to have.
goodpoint 2y ago
Because your ISP is selling your traffic logs. Because you want to avoid creepy targeted ads. Because you live in a country that blocks many legitimate websites. Because you are looking for information about abortion and live in countries like Iran or US