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What NPR report says thousands of civilians were injured? None of these do: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-23452/hezbollah-pagers-explode-across-lebanon-c

What NPR report says thousands of civilians were injured? None of these do: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-23452/hezbollah-pagers-explode-across-lebanon-causing-nearly-3-000-casualties https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-23452/hezbollah-pagers-e... https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-23406/scores-of-hezbollah-fighters-wounded-following-pager-blasts https://www.npr.org/2024/09/17/g-s1-23406/scores-of-hezbolla...

colordrops 2y ago
[flagged]
- charbroiled 2y ago
  It says thousands were injured, not that the thousands injured were civilians. In fact, it’s likely that most casualties were Hezbollah operatives. From the first link: “Reports from Lebanon said Hezbollah recently received a new batch of imported pagers, which were being used to share information about possible Israeli drone strikes and other attacks.” From the second link: “The Lebanese armed group Hezbollah said the pagers belonged to the group’s officials and blamed Israel for orchestrating what appeared to be an unusual synchronized attack on Hezbollah’s communications system.” Based on that, and the limited effective range of the blast (as visible in videos and the fact that the injuries are consistent with a pager in a hand or a pocket), it’s likely that the majority of injuries were of Hezbollah personnel. > Are you a bot? No.
  - colordrops 2y ago
    Please explain to me how exactly Mossad got these pagers into only Hezbollah hands. It was just a shipment of pagers that was interfered with while in transit. There were absolutely non Hezbollah that had these things. Also please explain to me how nearby innocents were protected. That's right, they weren't.
    - dredmorbius 2y ago
      The pagers, which Hezbollah had ordered from Gold Apollo in Taiwan, had been tampered with before they reached Lebanon, according to some of the officials. Most were the company’s AR924 model, though three other Gold Apollo models were also included in the shipment. <https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-pagers-explosives.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-h...> Ordered by, and delivered to, Hezbollah.
- dredmorbius 2y ago
  From your source: "killing at least nine people and wounding around 2,800 across [Lebanon]". That's a total casualty count, and does not distinguish civilian from Hezbollah casualties. Hezbollah itself claims 100,000 members, by which this would represent ~3% of the total force as targets of the attack. The devices in question were ordered by, and delivered to, Hezbollah, per an NYTimes report I've just mentioned in another reply to another of your comments. Wikipedia reports some civillian deaths, "including four healthcare workers and two children" citing NBC News, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, and Associated Press: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions#Casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions#...> Given the very many highly motivated eyes on this story, I'm highly confident that if there were credible reports of a higher civilian casualty rate we'd be hearing about it in spades. It's clear that there was some broader damage, but overall the attack was highly specific to Hezbollah. Arguments that this wasn't a highly-specifically-targeted attack don't pass the credibility test. Again, I'm not uncritical of Israel, and try to follow the many nuances of the overall situation. I also realise that it's exceptionally difficult to remain dispassionate when its you and yours who are subject to attacks, and in a conflict spanning generations.

colordrops 2y ago

[flagged]

charbroiled 2y ago
It says thousands were injured, not that the thousands injured were civilians. In fact, it’s likely that most casualties were Hezbollah operatives. From the first link: “Reports from Lebanon said Hezbollah recently received a new batch of imported pagers, which were being used to share information about possible Israeli drone strikes and other attacks.” From the second link: “The Lebanese armed group Hezbollah said the pagers belonged to the group’s officials and blamed Israel for orchestrating what appeared to be an unusual synchronized attack on Hezbollah’s communications system.” Based on that, and the limited effective range of the blast (as visible in videos and the fact that the injuries are consistent with a pager in a hand or a pocket), it’s likely that the majority of injuries were of Hezbollah personnel. > Are you a bot? No.
- colordrops 2y ago
  Please explain to me how exactly Mossad got these pagers into only Hezbollah hands. It was just a shipment of pagers that was interfered with while in transit. There were absolutely non Hezbollah that had these things. Also please explain to me how nearby innocents were protected. That's right, they weren't.
  - dredmorbius 2y ago
    The pagers, which Hezbollah had ordered from Gold Apollo in Taiwan, had been tampered with before they reached Lebanon, according to some of the officials. Most were the company’s AR924 model, though three other Gold Apollo models were also included in the shipment. <https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-hezbollah-pagers-explosives.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/world/middleeast/israel-h...> Ordered by, and delivered to, Hezbollah.
dredmorbius 2y ago
From your source: "killing at least nine people and wounding around 2,800 across [Lebanon]". That's a total casualty count, and does not distinguish civilian from Hezbollah casualties. Hezbollah itself claims 100,000 members, by which this would represent ~3% of the total force as targets of the attack. The devices in question were ordered by, and delivered to, Hezbollah, per an NYTimes report I've just mentioned in another reply to another of your comments. Wikipedia reports some civillian deaths, "including four healthcare workers and two children" citing NBC News, CNN, the Wall Street Journal, and Associated Press: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions#Casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions#...> Given the very many highly motivated eyes on this story, I'm highly confident that if there were credible reports of a higher civilian casualty rate we'd be hearing about it in spades. It's clear that there was some broader damage, but overall the attack was highly specific to Hezbollah. Arguments that this wasn't a highly-specifically-targeted attack don't pass the credibility test. Again, I'm not uncritical of Israel, and try to follow the many nuances of the overall situation. I also realise that it's exceptionally difficult to remain dispassionate when its you and yours who are subject to attacks, and in a conflict spanning generations.